[pametfisher]

Pametfisher, that's a great post. I'd like to see that spreadsheet; I have a couple of professors who'd use it in their classes (math and physics).

Here's a printout of one set of data, PDF format. Let me know if you want a copy of the spreadsheet and I'll e-mail it.

 

[WhiteLakeBuc]

Here's a printout of one set of data, PDF format. Let me know if you want a copy of the spreadsheet and I'll e-mail it.

That is some good stuff right there. Thanks for posting!

 

[ksong]

The beauty of Everol reel is you don't have to set the drag. The drag
diagram on the side plate shows the drag pressure you want to use and all you have to do is to push the drag lever to the drag lbs you want.
See how drag increases from full line to half full of line and bottom spool of line. 18 lbs drag on full line become 27 lbs on half full of line and 54 lbs when at the bottom of spool on 6/0 Everol reel.

 

[ichibahn]

I get 34# on Torium 16 with upgrade drag washer and drag plate.
This will be d-a (Doug) knuckle buster

 

[pametfisher]

The beauty of Everol reel is you don't have to set the drag. The drag
diagram on the side plate shows the drag pressure you want to use and all you have to do is to push the drag lever to the drag lbs you want.
See how drag increases from full line to half full of line and bottom spool of line. 18 lbs drag on full line become 27 lbs on half full of line and 54 lbs when at the bottom of spool on 6/0 Everol reel.



So they must factory calibrate it. I had heard about this reel and wondered how it worked. That's a good chart on the side that demonstrates the point of constant torque and drag force build up. Here's a funny quote from Accurate about how precise their drags are:

Twinspin Manual Language (My Underlining)
Thanks to the TWINSPIN exclusive Twin Drag technology, the drag tension you set will vary no more than one pound when line is pulled off the reel at any speed! Unfortunately, there is another factor which causes drag variance that needs to be accounted for. This factor is based on how full the reel is with line. When the spool is filled, the line is being pulled off a high point on the spool. As the amount of line on the spool reduces, the line is pulled from a lower area on the spool. There is less leverage used when the line is pulled at a lower level, which means the line needs more force to move the spool against the drag. The drag setting has not been decreased, but the line will encounter increased tension. (The drag pressure will approximately double when 25% of the line has been removed from a full spool.)

My Note: I don't think that the pressure will double for the first 25% removed. More likely that it will have doubled when 25% remains.

 

[ksong]

I get 34# on Torium 16 with upgrade drag washer and drag plate.
This will be d-a (Doug) knuckle buster
As Mrbill said, each reel is designed for certain application and has its limit accordingly.
Torium/Trinidad is designed for upto 18 - 20 lbs max drag and anti-reverse gear will not sustain if the reel is used over 20 lbs drag.
For the reason, I am not in favor of upgrading drag unless I am convinced the reel is capable of handling upgraded drag.

 

[ichibahn]

As Mrbill said, each reel is designed for certain application and has its limit accordingly.
Torium/Trinidad is designed for upto 18 - 20 lbs max drag and anti-reverse gear will not sustain if the reel is used over 20 lbs drag.
For the reason, I am not in favor of upgrading drag unless I am convinced the reel is capable of handling upgraded drag.

Doug want to blow that Torium for fun

 

[ksong]

Doug want to blow that Torium for fun
Ask him to wear gloves when testing.
It hurt my knuckle badly when I fought a 40 lbs shnook with one action mooching reel in Langara Island off Queen Charlotte Island, British Columbia and the king salmon made a run. I can see why they call the reel 'knuckle buster'.

 

[miles]

Hiya

I'm very particular about my drag settings. I like EVERY rod on the boat to have the exact sme drag settings, which means no matter which rig you use, you'll know exactly how hard you can pull.

I CHECK and SET my drags EVERY two weeks during fishing season. The strange thing is that my drags will ALWAYS vary, quite drastically from what i set them. I'll set my Tiagra 30LRS, 3xShimano 50W's all to 20lb's drag on strike. After two or three weeks fishing, the drags on ALL of them will vary from as low as 14lb's to 18lb's. I get the same loss of drag on my Penn 80VS's.

If the fishing has been good, i replace my top shots every two weeks, so my reels are ALWAYS full of line and thd drag SHOULD be the same.

When i started teaching my crew how to catch YF, one thing i showed them was how the drag system works. I set the reel on strike and had them read the maximum reading on the scale, that i attached to the end of the line. After that, i stripped off half the line from the reel and again got them to repeat the scale reading AT strike position. The drag is substantially more with a half empty spool. This way, they now understand when i tell them to ease back the drag, when a large fish has taken more than half the line off the spool.......

Just curious as to HOW Everol keeps the drag settings accurately, when both my Shimano and Penn leverdrags lose drag settings.......

 

[Sea Crappie]

I totally agree that some reels (torium included) are being pushed way beyond what they're engineered to withstand. It may not fail today or tomorrow, but it's gonna happen.

One other drag issue that needs to be considered is the friction of water on the line. This isn't easily calculated (unlike spool diameter), and can be the difference between landing and losing a fish, especially if there's much line in the water. For example, if a fish is moving straight down, there is virtually no increase in drag from water friction. However, if it is moving away from the vertical plane of the boat, the friction from the water can be tremendous, and increases with the scope and speed of the fish.

At the end of the day, experience counts for more than anything else.

Oh, and I'll go ahead and disagree that twinspin drags don't vary with the speed of the line........... any reel can fail, from a variety of causes.

 

[Bellyups]

Oh, and I'll go ahead and disagree that twinspin drags don't vary with the speed of the line........... any reel can fail, from a variety of causes.

Hmmm, I wonder why...

 

[d-a]

I get 34# on Torium 16 with upgrade drag washer and drag plate.
This will be d-a (Doug) knuckle buster


I only plan on using 16-18 Lbs of drag. I like having the useable range higher so I don't have the drag locked down to get my drag.

I always wear gloves.

d-a

 

[ichibahn]

I only plan on using 16-18 Lbs of drag. I like having the useable range higher so I don't have the drag locked down to get my drag.

I always wear gloves.

d-a
I just joking. I know you wouldn't max the drag for this little reel

 

[tdwcapt]

I know this is a fairly old thread, but I want to chime in on this topic.

I've never been able to understand why people are so concerned with max drag when (IMHO) most people don't know how to truly max out their tackle anyway.

Ever notice that guys who consistently take the biggest fish are the ones who combine an insane amount of heat on their gear with technique? Now tell me that you've ever seen maybe more than 5 guys who could do it!

If you have to ask how much pressure you can put on your gear, then you don't know your gear. Someone who asks this question wouldn't know what 45lbs of drag on 100 line feels like.

The only way to truly understand your tackle is to use it. You won't get the answer on the internet in your living room. Let me put it another way. I know a couple of guys who could probably whip a 100lb tuna on 40lb gear faster than most can on 80lb. Get my drift?

I'm not saying that people don't know what they're talking about. I know there are some great fishermen here.

I'm just saying that regardless of whether or not you fish fly tackle with 12lb tippet or 200lb mono on a Penn 70VSX, if you don't have "the touch" you won't know how much pressure you can exert.

This very topic is what has fascinated anglers since the first wooden reel came out.

 

[John_Madison CT]

Thanks for reviving this thread. I agree with everything you say, expect Penn doesn't make a 70VSX.

 

[tdwcapt]

Well, whatever that 70 Int'l is.

And here's another point. You'll often see guys taking pics of them bottoming out their gear in the back yard. That doesn't mean squat. Do it in 4-6foot seas with the boat rolling, grips wet, with 250 yards of line out, half hung over from jammin last night, half sick, after 20 minutes of pulling, etc. In other words, in real conditions. That's the only way to truly know what you and your gear are capable of.

 

[pametfisher]

I know this is a fairly old thread, but I want to chime in on this topic.

I've never been able to understand why people are so concerned with max drag when (IMHO) most people don't know how to truly max out their tackle anyway.

Ever notice that guys who consistently take the biggest fish are the ones who combine an insane amount of heat on their gear with technique? Now tell me that you've ever seen maybe more than 5 guys who could do it!

If you have to ask how much pressure you can put on your gear, then you don't know your gear. Someone who asks this question wouldn't know what 45lbs of drag on 100 line feels like.

The only way to truly understand your tackle is to use it. You won't get the answer on the internet in your living room. Let me put it another way. I know a couple of guys who could probably whip a 100lb tuna on 40lb gear faster than most can on 80lb. Get my drift?

I'm not saying that people don't know what they're talking about. I know there are some great fishermen here.

I'm just saying that regardless of whether or not you fish fly tackle with 12lb tippet or 200lb mono on a Penn 70VSX, if you don't have "the touch" you won't know how much pressure you can exert.

This very topic is what has fascinated anglers since the first wooden reel came out.

I'd like to agree and then for the sake of a good discussion, disagree.

Technique, in all endeavors matters a lot. Technique may be the equal of tool. My dad repaired cement mixers, wreckers and automobiles for decades with a tool box that would fit under your arm. And technique is why my 140 pound neighbor always drives his golf ball a third further than me even though I'm 50% bigger. (How does he do it?) And I know I'd have to work on my technique a lot if I ever wanted catch up with him.

However, I think that your frustration with all the "internet talk" might be misplaced. First the fisherman who started this thread and many, many of those who contributed have thousands of hours of actual fishing time. They are using this forum to compare and debate ideas.

Although you do actually have to get out on the water and try things, equipment will never be any better than it performs on dry land. Given how inadequately rods, reels and lines are specified and given how inaccurate those specs usually are, I think most fishermen would do themselves a huge service to see what the best performance is that they can expect from their equipment under "ideal" land conditions so that they have a starting point.

The point that started this thread was that the first person posting has observed, on the water, a condition he feels is threatening the BFT fishery. Namely fishermen using equipment with inadequate drag for the species they're targeting--leading to very long fight times and lost fish--fish that swam around with 10' of leader and maybe 50' of braid until the hooks corroded or, whatever.

I think that's a good point to debate here. Even if, as my Provincetown neighbor who catches Giant Bluefins on handlines says, "What's all this fuss about rods and reels? Just get a good hook and enough line, catch a bluefish, dunk your bait, and get out there." (Note: The first time he took me out on one of those excursions on his 23 footer in 8 foot seas, I lost my bait and my breakfast.)

 

[ksong]

I thought this subject is very interesting not realizing I started this thread.
I know very few guys fish as hard as I do, but my experience is still very limited.
That is why we need discussion to learn from others' experiences. Still everyday is learning experience for me.
When I went tuna fishing on a party boat for the frist time, I landed 5 yft and fished like a veteran. It was mainly because I learnd so many things from reading before the trip and I was prepared for it.
The best thing of internet discussion is you can get pretty good ideas even before you put your line in the water. It saves lots of time and money.

 

[Guest]

reading the internet stuff definitely saves time and money and can point people in the right direction and give you new ideas on ways to fish for things. one guy may use a lure or setup that you'd never think to use....but it might work. now you've got one more option or something new to try. seeing everyone's experiences and trying them yourself is a big plus to these forums.

no one knows everything about this stuff....i know i have and still do learn a lot and get a lot of new ideas from people. when it comes to jigging/popping i think almost all of us (including myself) are beginners since it's relatively new. hearing different opinions and experiences helps the 'evolution' of this.

 

[Rebown]

I observed many local tuna fishermen in Cape Cod use light line (50 lbs) and light drag (14-15 lbs) for them though majority of bft this year is around 100 lbs or bigger. I suggested on the other site that heavier lines and more drag are desirable to catch a tuna over 100 lbs. They think it is norm to catch a 100 lbs tuna taking over 40 - 60 minutes. I like to use light stuffs for tuna jigging. I was criticized to use 3/0 size reel with long rod for big tuna jigging in the past, but I always used 80 lbs with 22- 25 lbs drag for them.
When school blufin showed up in Cape Cod a few years ago, charter boats enjoyed to catch them with light spinning tackles or fly rods as they are about in 30 - 50 lbs range, which influenced many fishermen who started to catch school bluefin there. However they got bigger each year and we saw 100 plus lbs bft this year, but many guys don't change their gears for them.

When popping, they tend to use light line to increase casting distance. You lose a little casting distance with 80 lbs braided line instead of 50 - 65 lbs braided line, but you still can cast 60 - 80 yards with 80 lbs which is good enough mostly.

I can land a 100 lbs bft with 80 lbs braided line and 25 drag in 15 minutes. 15-20 minutes is enough time you enjoy fighting. Besides, tuna quality decreases if you fight 40 - 60 minutes for 100 lbs tuna. When you cut tuna, you'll notice meat get mushy when you fight long.
As the regulation of bft is only one between 47 inch and 73 inch, you have to release all bft once you landed one. There is no reason to fight long with light drag which could kill tuna even though you release them.
They are talking about no damage of gear or knot they use even fighing a 100 lbs tuna. With 14 - 15 lbs drag, you don't see much problem no matter what gears you use or what knots you use.

This post is not intended to offend anyone who enjoys light tackles, but I just want to express my personal opinion as I believe right tackles are needed to land a 100 plus tuna within reasonable time.

I'll be a speaker of jigging sessions at Canyon Runner's fishing seminar at three different locations on the East Coast next winter and I plan to talk about this issue at the seminars.

Very informative! Thank you.