Wind-on Assistance

Discussion in 'Tackle and Rigging' started by Chris Borden, Jul 16, 2016.

  1. Chris Borden

    Chris Borden Member

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    Has anyone tried the serving method shown in the Tackle Direct video?



    It seems to work well in my tests. I have had no creep in the serve with a 12" insertion. Before I make a bunch of leaders using this method I was hoping to get some input about the pros or cons of this method. I should mention that I used tension with the tackle direct method, and I normally insert 3'.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2016
  2. Kim

    Kim Senior Member

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    I've never tried that particular method of serving. When I first started making popping leaders with short inserts 8 - 12 inches which I served under tension with #30 JB white, they all slipped when load tested. The solution I used to stop that from happening was to tension the leader, whip a 1 inch serving on it about 8 inches from the tag end and glue it with Zap a Gap or the JB system glue. I insert the leader into the HC until the serving is 1 1/2 inches inside the HC. Then I serve the leader down and up again so my serve ends right at the bottom of the serving on the leader material under the HC and again I use glue on the serving. I haven't had any of the short insert popping leaders slip that were served this way.

    You should search that topic here, a few years back it was a pretty hot topic and several people had come up with different ways to make short insert leaders that didn't slip. Hope this helps.
     
    Cubeye likes this.

  3. jiggingnut

    jiggingnut Junior member

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    That is basically the same as the tried and true PR knot with the exception of the way it was secured at the end. PR knot uses a series of alternating half hitches while the one on the video uses a 3-turn Uni knot...really no difference in strength. As long as you have at least 3" of the wrapped area, it shouldn't slip.

    Look at videos of how PR knot is done and see for yourself. I've been using PR knots with at least 3" of wrapped area and have not had any problems.
     
  4. Chris Borden

    Chris Borden Member

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    I felt the same way about it being a PR at the end of a hollow core insertion. I'm inserting 3', so the combo should hold. Any additional comments or observations would be greatly appreciated, and thanks for the input.
     
  5. Bluefin20killer

    Bluefin20killer Well-Known Member

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    Only issue is that it is bulky. The advantage of a wind on or splice is to have a smoother connection and better strength. That's just a knot...doesn't go through the guides well and in my opinion takes away the advantage of the hollow core braid.
     
  6. Kim

    Kim Senior Member

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    Chris with a 3 foot insert of leader into the hollow core the finger trap action of the hollow core will give you 100% on its own and a small serving or even a nail knot to anchor the bitter end of the hollow core to the leader is all that's needed. The smaller your servings and knots are the smoother they will go through the guides.
     
    jureal likes this.
  7. jureal

    jureal Senior Member

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    I agree. Much easier to just do the insertion and then a series of nail knots to secure using 50# solid spectra. Glue the nail knot using your favorite super glue and you are done. The finger trap really does the holding and the nail knot keeps it from creeping.
     
  8. jureal

    jureal Senior Member

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    Just the best looking serve I have ever seen. I can duplicate the strength but can not make it look so pretty!
     
    Basil likes this.
  9. Kim

    Kim Senior Member

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    I think my serves look pretty good.
     

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  10. Chris Borden

    Chris Borden Member

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    Your serve does look good. You definitely have it perfected. Do they hold up during testing? I'm trying to develop a windon which hold 100% of the line rating at the serve and in the insertion. That way one backs the other up in case of a serve failure. I have great results with a double wall leader inserted at least 2'. The serve I posted here on this thread holds 100% of the line rating with no slip or creep. I just want a less bulky serve for my casting leaders. Other styles of serve has not tested well for me. Perhaps you can give me some advise.
     
  11. Kim

    Kim Senior Member

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    Chris I serve down and then back up with a serving length of about 1 1/2 inch, finishing off with a couple half hitches , Rizutto knot and a coat of zap a gap. I always make double wall leaders and have never had one pull out. I have had a couple slip a little bit but it took putting the rod in the rod holder and planeing up big sharks using the boat. They either come up or break off but we don't waste time fighting a shark that will just be cut loose.

    For casting leaders I still use double wall but I'm only inserting about 8 inches of leader so that all of the inserted leader is outside of the rod tip when I cast. I tension the leader material, put a 1 inch serving on on it about 6 1/2 inches from the inserted end and coat it with zap a gap, insert the leader into the HC, have to work it over the serving carefully, milk the inner wall down over the served leader until it's 1 1/4 inch past the leader serving, the outside wall ends about 1/4 inch above the inner wall, serve down and up so the Rizutto ends flush against the serving on the leader under the HC and then coat with zap a gap. I haven't had one fail or pull out with a fish on the line.
     

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    Last edited: Aug 1, 2016
  12. Chris Borden

    Chris Borden Member

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    Thanks Kim. That is a very good description of what you're doing. I'll give it a try. It has been a fun year of learning, testing, and trying over again.
     
  13. Kim

    Kim Senior Member

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    20151026_124214.jpg Chris I have to admit it was pretty frustrating at first because a few years ago the short insert was the holy grail but since then numerous people have come up with various methods of making it work. Let me try and save you some trial and error. For the short inserts you have to tension the leader to serve it. It's much easier to tension a longer leader rather than a short one, so what I do is tension a section of mono or fluoro that's long enough for me to make a half a dozen or so leaders. All the serving really does is provide an anchor point for the HC and the fingertrap between the leader and HC does the majority of the "holding", the anchor point just keeps it from slipping.

    The best way I've found to tension the leader is to tie a large SS assist ring onto each end of the leader. Hard to believe but the best knot to use is a simple overhand knot, tie an overhand knot at the bitter ends so it won't pull through, then tie each end to the assist ring with another overhand knot (make sure you snug them up good prior to putting tension on the leader. I used to use a scale to measure but now I just do it by hand making sure I get a good stretch on the leader ( you might be surprised how much stretch is in fluoro as well as mono). I mark off the leader in 3 foot sections, do the servings on the leader, coat them with zap a gap, release tension, cut the leaders apart and then assemble the wind on.

    Many of my fishing buddies use my wind on leaders and when the longer leaders get broken/bitten off and the leader too short to use they bring them back to me to put a new leader in them if the HC is still in good shape. The casting ones are usually gone in a bite off so I've never recycled one of them yet. Tight lines to you.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2016
  14. Chris Borden

    Chris Borden Member

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    Thanks for the help Kim! You Basil and Pametfisher have been excellent teachers. Many of us appreciate all the info you have shared.