Wind Knots with Spinning Rod Casting :mad:

Discussion in 'Jigging and Popping' started by Billiam, Jul 7, 2009.

  1. Billiam

    Billiam Moderator

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    Just wanted to get some input on how to prevent wind knots from occurring. I noticed that the last 2 tuna popping trips this occurred on my casts. I was using a tuna sniper rod 40-60, Stella 20k FA, and tuftline plus 80lb test.

    I believe my problem lied in the 1 or a combination of the following things:
    1. The tuftline that I was using seemed a little on the light side, the diameter was pretty wide and a bit hollow, and maybe the slick on the line had something to do with it too. I've used this on conventional reels and absolutely loved it.
    2. My connection from braided to mono, although I used a mid-knot and glued it with zap-a-gap and uv knot sense, it still went through the guides a bit rough. I believe the uv know sense also may have not cured fully or I might have put too much to cover up the mono and it cracked off.
    3. My inability to "cock" the rod and give it pressure before I casted. The capt. was saying I was not giving it enough elastic sling shot, but I noticed that many times when I got a wind knot it would be when I was casting with the wind.
    4. Having a longer leader material, I noticed that when I triggered on the braided I was having more wind knots. When I triggered on the mono leader I was having less.
    5. Casting direction with, against wind
    6. Having a heavier popper
    7. Jerking the popper and retrieving the line sequence, which may have made for a looser/ tighter spooling, may have also led to borrowing of the line, causing inconsistent flow through the guides.


    On the contrary I am an avid surf fisherman and have never came across this type of problems which lies my dilemma. :(

    Any suggestion on line, or technique, etc. would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
     
  2. lordhell

    lordhell Moderator

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    Did you spool your line to the brim of the spool or did you leave some room? Leave about 1/8 inch from spool lip.... I find that leaving a bit of room helps with preventing bad casts and wind knots.
     

  3. d-a

    d-a Senior Member

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    If your going to keep the leader long you need soft leader material like the varivas. The other option is to use a short leader that is out of your guides.

    d-a
     
  4. SpecialK

    SpecialK Super Moderator

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    Did you spool your line to the brim of the spool or did you leave some room? Leave about 1/8 inch from spool lip.... I find that leaving a bit of room helps with preventing bad casts and wind knots.
    X2
    I have had this problem in the past.

    Also as D-A said, the leader material can make an impact as well.
    One other thing that seems to help me when casting into the wind is to lower my cast so there is not as much opportunity to develope slack in the line during your cast.
     
  5. Billiam

    Billiam Moderator

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    lordhell:
    My spool was already at 1/8 in into the spool after losing and cutting off line and I still had the same problem.

    DA:
    I was using high catch leader, very very soft mono and triggering on the mono seemed to help better than triggering on the braided.

    SpecialK:
    I tried casting into the low winds, and this helped. But it negates the distance. I tried casting in the median and waited in between gusts.

    From Haitua:
    Mentioned that tuftline is limber and that its ok for jigging and other stuff, but its a little too light for casting.

    What do you guys think the best braided line for popping???
    Some say Jerry brown (the hollow or braided??)
    Some say Stren braided?
    I would imagine something with a little more weight and thinner in diameter would work best.
     
  6. jig

    jig Senior Member

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    x3. Maybe what you have left is twisted. Try straighting it out by letting some out behind the boat, then reel in tight. Leave a little more than 1/8 inch. Every time I have had this problem, it is cured by having less line on the spool. Every single time.

    Also, I always throw 65# solid spectra. I have heard the hollow causes problems for some folks.
     
  7. d-a

    d-a Senior Member

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    I have tuffline xp on all but one popping rod and I have allieviated my problems. I'm not familiar with the hy catch, but I can assure you it's not made for casting like the varivas leader is.

    d-a
     
  8. ksong

    ksong SPONSOR

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    Willie,
    I observed that the only difference bewteen you and other guys is you use 80 lbs line and others use 50 - 65 lbs line.
    I have 50 lbs Varivas Avani on my Accurate SR20 and have very few wind knots even I spooled the the brim.
     
  9. SeaWolf

    SeaWolf Junior member

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    wind knots happen for many reason, some mentioned here. as a rod builder, i can add to that:

    > throwing poppers tends to put loose line on the spool for the next cast. during the next cast, line gets pulled off the reel and catches this loose line causing a knot.

    > throwing soft plastics will also cause loose line as these lures are not very aerodynamic and sometimes seem to "die" by the end of the cast.

    > large spooled reels and especially wide spooled reels have wider line loops coming off the spool and sometimes a poorly aligned catch guide or too small of a catch guide for the reel being used will cause a wind knot. using older framed guides that are not designed to lessen line overrun going thru the guides also can be a culprit.

    > heavy running line doesnt bend as easily as smaller, thinner line thus making it bunch up before the catch guide.

    > a rod that is too soft or with a slow recovery. this rods tend to "bounce" after the initial load and cast and take a few seconds to straighen out. during this bouncing, the line is not smooth coming off the spool and may wrap around the guide frame or get bunched up.

    > overfilling the spool. this is usually a major culprit.

    check your line on the spool often after casts and make sure it's somewhat tight. you may need to make a false cast occasionally to tighten the line for the next cast. simply hold the hold between your fingers to put it on a little tighter. some of the suggestions about trying other lines may help too as some lines are more friendly than others.
     
  10. Billiam

    Billiam Moderator

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    Jig - I put a barrel swivel on the 2nd trip and yet still the similar results of wind knots. I thought that was the problem but I guess not.

    D-a - so you don't have any problems with the tuftline xp??? are you using the same reel? Are you using 80 lbs test?

    Kil - So varivas is the way to go. Thanks for giving me the high catch then :mad: ....
    :p

    Seawolf - Yah I noticed the same things you said with poppers and soft plastics. I've notice they definitely need weight inorder to work properly.


    Thanks for your input.

    I heard the newer stella has a casting mechanism that free flows line out in a tighter line flow out of the spool. Wonder if ppl get wind knots with those reels.
     
  11. ksong

    ksong SPONSOR

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    Kil - So varivas is the way to go. Thanks for giving me the high catch then :mad: ....
    :p

    .

    It was not my suggestion to use Varivas though I am selling Varivas leader line. :eek:
    It doesn' make any difference whether I use Varivas or other lines. :)
    Just think about why you don't get wind knot while surf fishing and you get many wind knot when popping tuna. Try surf fishing with 80 lbs line and see what happens. :)
     
  12. SpecialK

    SpecialK Super Moderator

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    Just think about why you don't get wind knot while surf fishing and you get many wind knot when popping tuna. Try surf fishing with 80 lbs line and see what happens. :)
    Good point.
     
  13. rhale

    rhale Senior Member

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    I heard the newer stella has a casting mechanism that free flows line out in a tighter line flow out of the spool. Wonder if ppl get wind knots with those reels.

    Yes.... I lost a few shibuki's to wind knots on my new Stella. To be honest I cant tell any difference in casting between my 10K FA and my 10K SW.

    I pulled off a little line and used a short leader outside the guides and I have not had a problem since. Good luck. Oh, and I am using 80# JB solid on one reel and 80# Daiwa boat braid on the other.
     
  14. jig

    jig Senior Member

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    IMO, a barrel swivel does little to help unless you are using a bait that actually spins (i.e. chunking, jigging). Even then, if you are having a problem, a ball bearing swivel works better. But, I use neither with swim baits and topwaters.

    So let's go to basics. I assume you are not reeling in against the drag (reeling without line coming in, or worse while line is going out). When you spooled the line on the reel, did you do it so the line comes off the top of the spool correctly? I always wind a few, then check for twist, and sometimes have to flip spool. If not, you may be twisting the line as you spool up, so you started with the problem. THis is much more noticable in mono, but does occur with braid too.

    Since you are experienced, you probably know this, but sometimes we forget the basics and this may be the problem. If not, try smaller diamter line, and less of it. Thats all I can think of.
     
  15. gman

    gman Senior Member

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    generally the two factors I see the most when people get wind knots are

    1. The spool being to full with line

    2. Not getting enough load in the rod when casting, therefore your line comes off slower causing the line to coil around guides

    3. The knot is catching the spool somehow such as tag end of knot, or excess glue on knot

    4. Your knot is too big
     
  16. SpecialK

    SpecialK Super Moderator

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    Yes.... I lost a few shibuki's to wind knots on my new Stella. To be honest I cant tell any difference in casting between my 10K FA and my 10K SW.

    I pulled off a little line and used a short leader outside the guides and I have not had a problem since. Good luck. Oh, and I am using 80# JB solid on one reel and 80# Daiwa boat braid on the other.

    The wind was a serious issue that day:D
    The seas were also...

    Jig, did you ever process the video of the waves blocking out Hoover?
     
  17. d-a

    d-a Senior Member

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    Bill

    I have tuffline on a 8k 10k and 20k fa stellas. I have 50 thru 80lb braid on them. When I used a long jinkai leader I had the same problems as you describe. I shortened my leader to where it's outside the guides and didn't have any problems on that trip. The next trip I had the varivas leader and I used 2 wraps around the spool and didn't have any problems.

    Now if I need flouro I always have the knot outside the guides.

    d-a
     
  18. Snagged

    Snagged Senior Member

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    It was not my suggestion to use Varivas though I am selling Varivas leader line. :eek:
    It doesn' make any difference whether I use Varivas or other lines. :)
    Just think about why you don't get wind knot while surf fishing and you get many wind knot when popping tuna. Try surf fishing with 80 lbs line and see what happens. :)

    X3
     
  19. SeaWolf

    SeaWolf Junior member

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    Just think about why you don't get wind knot while surf fishing and you get many wind knot when popping tuna. Try surf fishing with 80 lbs line and see what happens. :)

    kil, i do a lot of surf fishing and built a lot of surf rods. the majority of wind knots happen while surf fishing due to casting lures that are light and designed to swim, not cast 100 yards, thus they kind of die during the cast instead of continually pulling line off. plus, you're trying to cast that lure 100 yards when it may go 30 yards only. loose line goes onto the reel during the retrieve and then the next cast pulls the loose line off and into the catch guide and a knot forms. if you examine wind knots closely you can see exactly how the line caught itself. a lot of anglers that pencil pop also have issues w/ wind knows due to the action and retreive of the lure. a lot of times it is also due to the line type and guide setup, as well as the reel/spool type. another reason not to over fill the spool with line.

    i always use between 60-80# leaders while surf fishing, but i don't have the leader around my spool. it's off the tip and about 5-7' long.
     
  20. jig

    jig Senior Member

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    K,

    No, its on my digital camera. I don't know how to do anything. I will try and download tonight and email to you.
     
  21. SpecialK

    SpecialK Super Moderator

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    K,

    No, its on my digital camera. I don't know how to do anything. I will try and download tonight and email to you.
    Yeah if you email it to me ill get it fixed up...