When to Crimp; 200# Mid/PR

Discussion in 'Tackle and Rigging' started by pametfisher, Feb 17, 2009.

  1. pametfisher

    pametfisher Senior Member

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    Yesterday a friend who fishes for GBFT stopped by with some 200# Momoi Monfilament, which as a light tackle fisherman I'd hadn't yet used. As many of you know, this is stiff stuff compared to 80# and below. So I've got a few questions about guidelines for handling heavy Mono/Fluoro:

    --At what test line between 80# and 200# do you crossover from knotting to crimping?

    --A splice is good to 100%, a Bimini/Mid/Page Ranking to nearly that and most other knots reduce line strength by a third. How strong are crimps? (They look like a compression fixture line doubler, so are they 100% like a Bimini?)

    --What is the biggest Mono/Fluoro that it is possible/practical to attach with a Mid or P.R. knot?

    Thanks as always,
     
  2. d-a

    d-a Senior Member

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    Yesterday a friend who fishes for GBFT stopped by with some 200# Momoi Monfilament, which as a light tackle fisherman I'd hadn't yet used. As many of you know, this is stiff stuff compared to 80# and below. So I've got a few questions about guidelines for handling heavy Mono/Fluoro:

    --At what test line between 80# and 200# do you crossover from knotting to crimping?

    --A splice is good to 100%, a Bimini/Mid/Page Ranking to nearly that and most other knots reduce line strength by a third. How strong are crimps? (They look like a compression fixture line doubler, so are they 100% like a Bimini?)

    --What is the biggest Mono/Fluoro that it is possible/practical to attach with a Mid or P.R. knot?

    Thanks as always,

    I regularly tie a PR knot on 200lb Jinkai, and can tie certain fishing knots in it as well but always crimp it.

    I crimp all 200lb and higher, most 130 and higher. Some of the softer leaders like Varivas I will tie in 130-170lb.

    When done properly crimps are 100% like the pr/mid not

    d-a
     

  3. Eastern Tackle

    Eastern Tackle Senior Member

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    Pamet,
    The knot/crimp/splice discussion continues :)

    I would disagree whole heartedly that a crimp is 100%. However, it has been proven that aluminum crimps are much stronger than double sleeve copper.

    As you said in the other thread nothing compares to the splice. I will say though for trolling applications I crimp everything over 80. Partially for speed. If I have to rig 60 hoo's for a day of trolling, i want them rigged identically so I can do them without thinking about it.
     
  4. Eastern Tackle

    Eastern Tackle Senior Member

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    As an afterthought though, Glenn uses 200 for his AJ fishing here and no doubt is tieing a PR.
     
  5. TBaker

    TBaker Senior Member

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    1
    Yesterday a friend who fishes for GBFT stopped by with some 200# Momoi Monfilament, which as a light tackle fisherman I'd hadn't yet used. As many of you know, this is stiff stuff compared to 80# and below. So I've got a few questions about guidelines for handling heavy Mono/Fluoro:

    --At what test line between 80# and 200# do you crossover from knotting to crimping?

    --A splice is good to 100%, a Bimini/Mid/Page Ranking to nearly that and most other knots reduce line strength by a third. How strong are crimps? (They look like a compression fixture line doubler, so are they 100% like a Bimini?)

    --What is the biggest Mono/Fluoro that it is possible/practical to attach with a Mid or P.R. knot?

    Thanks as always,

    I crimp all mono and FC 80# and over. Been doing it for years. Just lost confidence in my knot-tying ability at that size and larger. New soft mono, like Varivas and Fisherman Stealth, may make me re-evaluate that. But I'm comfortable with my crimps and thats the key for me.

    Not sure how a good crimp tests out, but I've NEVER had one fail. Like knots, though, you have to do it right. I suspect a bad crimp is just like a bad knot.

    Btw, another advantage to crimping is you can use chafing gear. Very nice if you're putting tremendous pressure at the point where the line connects to your jig/hook.

    Not sure what the limit is for a mid or Page Ranking knot, but I'm also sure Glenn used a PR with 200 lb. leader. Don't see any reason why that wouldn't work. In fact, due to the nature of the knot, not sure there is a limit.
     
  6. pametfisher

    pametfisher Senior Member

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    D-a, Eastern, Tbaker, Thanks for the feedback. I've made a lot of decisions about how I'll rig this year (at least as I see things now) but I've bee thinking of the mono to terminal tackle connection for a while.

    I don't want to tie a Bimini in that end since it's kind of big but I also realize that any knot I tie will reduce the leader strength by 1/3. If I go up in strength (65-80# or 80-100#) then I get less casting distance and importantly to me, less stretch for the same length leader.

    Leadertec has some good crimping stuff and the 200# my neighbor brought over made me think this might be an alternative for the final connection--Crimp, chaffing and solid ring at the end of the leader.

    Either that or I'll tie a knot and call it the fuse, knowing that's were the line will break--decisions, decisions.

    Tbaker, how's the PR loop coming? (other forum)
     
  7. gman

    gman Senior Member

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    Its all about the leader ....

    I cant use a stiff 200# leader and expect a good PR knot thats why all I use is soft shock leaders a they bite very well during teh knot tying. For Amberjack I tie a PR knot from 100# braid to 200# leader and have never popped a knot under any circumstance

    Varivas and Jinkai is very soft and you can tie PR knots perfectly fine without any issues. 200# Momoi is too stiff therefore you will need to crimp
     
  8. TBaker

    TBaker Senior Member

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    Tbaker, how's the Page Ranking loop coming? (other forum)

    Gotta do more testing. Its all about strength now. :)
     
  9. TBaker

    TBaker Senior Member

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    200# Momoi is too stiff therefore you will need to crimp

    Hmm, got a bunch of 200# Momoi. Was gonna bring it down to NC in March. May have to re-think that. :(
     
  10. pametfisher

    pametfisher Senior Member

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    Today I had some time so I experimented with the Momoi 200# Mono and 80# JB Spectra. As Gman said, the Momoi Mono felt hard as a rock. It seemed as if it was going to be impossible to get a Mid Knot to sink in.

    The 200# Momoi was pretty hard to handle so I tied a loop in one end, hooked it over a bolt and pulled the line tight, clamping the other end to a block on the bench, putting the leader under tension. The under-wraps (first layer) were always space by at least one line diameter. All knots were lubricated before pulling. I formed an angle to the leader as I pulled the braid. I could not tie this anywhere but in the shop.

    The first attempt was about 14 under-wraps and 18 top-wraps with a Uni stop knot. As I pulled up the knot, it seemed like it was going to take but then at 40 lbs. force or so, it started to slip.

    The second attempt was 15 under-wraps and 20 top-wraps and half-hitches as the stop knot. This knot started to catch but also slipped.

    The third try was with 15 under-wraps and only 12 top-wraps, using half hitches as the stop knot. This time, the knot formed fairly easily. I pulled on this knot to 75 lbs. of force and it has permanently sunk into the Mono. I have attached a photo below, you can see the bulging of the mono. I wouldn't not have guessed this was possible given the hardness of the material.

    My observation is that the under-wraps to top-wraps form a sort of gear ratio. More under-wraps compared to the number of top-wraps seem to create a lower, more powerful gear ratio.

    Photo in Next Posting
     
  11. pametfisher

    pametfisher Senior Member

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    Here is the photo. 200# Momoi Mono, 80# JB Braid
     

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