[Uncle Russ]

Is using the rail permitted on 52 hour trips aboard the Big E? If so, what are the considerations of ettiquette with regard to using the rail if and when you are without harness, and being taken around the boat, having to move with a big fish? Thanks.

Russ

 

[Pope]

There should be no issue with the crew having a problem with it. The rail may be a little high to use it effectively. I use the rail and am not ashamed. You do have to follow your fish. I use the rail when the fish has sounded and its underneath the boat. If the tuna is on the move, you have to follow it. Keep the fish in front of you and when he gets under you, use the rail as a pivot.

 

[Minnow]

Agree with Pope.

If tuna sounded and going underneath the boat, I will point my rod tip down and get it as close to the water as possible and loosing the drag. I donno if this technique is right or wrong but it have works for me in many occasions. JMO

 

[Pope]

I didn't mean right underneath the boat, but rather straight down. Thanks for clearing that up TJ. If he is right under the boat follow TJ's advice. BTW, that is a good looking new rod Kevin made you TJ. Pretty!

 

[Uncle Russ]

Thanks Gentlemen. The reason I ask the question at all is that I thought I had located an Accurate rod (built by Calstar for them on the 760H blank) to match with the 50W for my heavy outfit. (They have discontinued this series of rods and, while I could buy a straight Calstar, I sort of wanted this one.) Anyway, the dealer I was talking with speaks terrible English and believe it or not, my Japanese isn't the best! Turns out the rod he actually has in stock is based on the 7465H blank, which is 6 foot 6 inches as opposed to 6 feet for the 760H. The weird part is that, while both rods are rated for 50-130 line, Accurate in their catalog recommends the longer rod for the heavier reels(ATD 80-130), and the shorter one, for the ATD 50 and up.)

So, having an inquiring brain, with almost nothing inside it, I first called Accurate, who told me it was a good question and the answer depended on the action of the 7465--but they didn't know. Then I called the Cal Star sales rep--a guy named Caeser, and he seemed to be very knowledgeable. He said that the longer rod is indeed heavier and bends only at the tip. He said it was specifically made longer for use on the rail, so it would extend out a little more. He said in a harness it would be absolute murder, but that for use on a rail, it would end fights with big fish in a hurry.

But, he also said whether you could use a rod effectively on the rail depended on what kind of rail it was. He said their long range boats out there have a wide wooden rail, about 10 inches wide, whereas most of the East Coast boats have a thin metal rail. I conjured up the virtual tour of the Big E online, and sure enough, it does have a wide rail, but then a tubular metal rail all around the gunnels. I guess if you used the rail, you couldn't put it under the metal one and sit on the end--you would have to put it on the metal tube itself?

Soooo, my quandry is whether to go with the longer rod and use the rail (sure would beat having to fool with a harness and it would be nice to learn to bring big ones in more quickly that way) OR have the Calstar guy try to locate one of the 760 H's for me with some other dealer.

Russ

 

[ksong]

Calstar rep, Ceasar gave very good and right advice to you.
it is a murder to fight with long rod on a harness. When you use the rail, the length of rod is not important. Actually it is easier to fight a tuna with longer rod using the rail when tuna makes circles under the boat.
We use 7 - 8 ft rod, even 9 ft. But it doesn't take more time to land a tuna than guys who use shorter rods when using the rail with heavy drag.
I always tell the light drag kills you, not the longer rod.

As the rails of the West Coast long range boats are wider and low, it is very hard to fight tuna effectively using the rail compared to the East Coast boats ( the Big E is very similar to the East Coast boats).

When I posted that I usually use the rail to fight tuna as my jiigging rod is long years ago, I was critisized that using the rail is not sportic and it is not allowed to be recognized by IGFA. When I fished on Qualifier 105 last fall when we encountered many cows, mates asked us not to use harness, but to use the rail. Time chanes.

The famous rail fisherman Roy Sakul fighting a cow using the rail on the Excel at Hurricane Bank.

See how easy to fight a tuna on the East Coast boat where the rail is high.

 

[Gdownunda]

I notice the rail is against the foregrip in both the pictures. Is this important to protect the blank or just coincidence?

 

[Deep_Sea_Gull]

It's very important to protect the blank there mate.

The newer custom built rods are crafted with a long foregrip. Many folks will add heat-shrink for durability.

 

[Uncle Russ]

ksong: Thanks very much. Those pictures clarify a lot for me about how it's done. And it is very encouraging that you can indeed use the rail on the east coast boats--the guy at Calstar said that it was easier with the wider rails on the west coast boats. Yes, I read some of your posts on other boards and saw the one picture of the broken rod. There was some criticism as I recall on that board.

I went ahead and ordered another 760H rod to use in the harness to pair with the Accurate 50W, but now, I may go ahead and pick up the 7465H as well, in order to use it on the rail. I am fascinated by the idea of being able to fish that way. Do you have any experience with that blank?

One other question: I am going to be working with Kevin when he has time, to build me a rod on the Calstar 850H blank. I intend to use this with the Twinspin 12 when it comes out in the next couple of months. Would this be a good jigging rod for the rail in your opinion? (I have also heard that you cannot use a spinning rig at the rail--so maybe not.) Actually, my main use for this combo will be for casting 1-4 ounce spoons and lead casting spoons out into the heavy channel current on the POC jetties and to fight, catch and release, big bull reds and jackfish as quickly as possible. But it's secondary use would be as a jigging rod. Any opinions?

Russ

 

[MrBill]

Ksong,
That is one great pic of Roy Sakul on the rail. That picture looks like it was taken right before it snapped. I would have to say that is the max a rod can take before it ends up in the burn pit or trash can. I still like that cheater "T" bar you use in the standard rod holder on a normal boat. I going to have one made and have my wife give it to me for Christmas. She can never get me anything because I always buy it myself.

 

[MrBill]

ksong: Would this be a good jigging rod for the rail in your opinion? (I have also heard that you cannot use a spinning rig at the rail--so maybe not.)
Russ


This is why its tough to use a spinner on the rail. Note angler on left has his guide on the rail. This is what happens to girly men. Disaster ready to happen.

 

[SkeeterRonnie]

etiquette when you are coming down the rail is to move..... if someone doesnt move- YOU MOVE THEM... that is if the deckhand doesnt do it first..... its called the "tuna shuffle"..... Gets my blood pumping just thinkg about the yelling and screaming... FISH!! Move!!!!! we lift rod or go under depending on where you line is in relation to ours.. if you are over our line. we kneel down and you go over us- if we are over your line:we raise our rod high and you go under..... you have to be vocal though so they can hear you.....some of us go into a trance and zombie-out when it gets slow... LOL!

 

[Ragman]

Great points Ronnie!

And most important of all, don't take ANY yelling personal!

Ronnie mentions a trance-like state of mind and he's 100% right.

I took my younger brother on a Big E trip and I worked with him chunking to hook him up with his first YFT.

That 76# fish hit exactly as I described to Jason and he did everything right!

When the fish started around the boat, Jason became this "Jekyl & Hyde" character when he started yelling "Coming down!" , "Move it", "Under!, "Over", etc.! LOL

This kid is a mild mannered, laid back bio chemist by day, but that fish temporarily transformed him into the Tasmanian Devil!

After he landed the YFT, he went and apologized to the guys that moved for him because he felt bad for yelling. But he said at the time, his adrenaline just got the best of him.

So don't take it personally, just do what you can at the moment to help anyone in your area to land their fish.

This is where karma really does a nasty boomerang move back!

 

[SkeeterRonnie]

another good reason NOT to leave your rods at the rail unattended.. they will get moved... LOL!!! If you aint tending to it in .. put it up.

 

[jig]

I holler 'Over you' or 'Under you' as I weave thru. I am always amazed out how well coordinated the dance is when you have a group who know what they are doing. Feels great to be a part of it, esp when everyone dancing gets that Yellow in the boat.

But if someone is yelling at you because you are not moving and following your fish, or you left an unattended rod at the rail, you should take it personnally.

All I fish now are the party boats, and I think most of my good fish lost are due to above two issues, but primarily getting hung up on an unattended rod (sometimes with a bait in the water!). So I don't wait or hesitate to move an unattended rod anymore. But I always take great care to move it very gently and lovingly.