topwater for YFT

Discussion in 'Reels' started by Skawlded Dawg, Oct 5, 2009.

  1. Skawlded Dawg

    Skawlded Dawg Guest

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    advice on a conventinal reel for casting YFT. The Avet LX two speed with cast control looks nice. Any better recomendations? What rod and length? Compaired to spinning tackle how do convential rigs perform as far as casting distance?

    Thanks
     
  2. paul708

    paul708 Site Sponsor

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    OTI has a conventional popping rod. same weight as the spinner
    7'6" length
    may be good for you.
     

  3. gman

    gman Senior Member

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    you need an educated thumb to cast conventional IMHO, something I don't have. In all seriousness casting a conventional reel for distance is almost an art form. I believe Ronnie is really good at casting conventional he may be able to share some tips
     
  4. HWK

    HWK Senior Member

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    Saltiga 40 would be a great reel,
     
  5. TBaker

    TBaker Senior Member

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    you need an educated thumb to cast conventional IMHO,

    Spot on, Glenn! I learned many, many years ago and that is the key. Once you get it, the smoothness of casting a conventional with good freespool makes you almost prefer it over spinning (despite the occasional and inevitable backlash). Takes lots and lots of practice, though. :)

    As far as distance, with a reel with great freespool, such as the Saltiga mentioned above, you can outcast a spinning reel with the same rod. 2 caveats, however. 1) You gotta be good at it, and 2) you won't be able to do it with lighter lures, such as 1-2 oz.

    All that said, spinning is a whole lot easier to master.
     
  6. gman

    gman Senior Member

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    Spot on, Glenn! I learned many, many years ago and that is the key. Once you get it, the smoothness of casting a conventional with good freespool makes you almost prefer it over spinning (despite the occasional and inevitable backlash). Takes lots and lots of practice, though. :)


    Thats because your from the left coast Tony ha ha LMAO all west coast guys cast conventional great
     
  7. johndtuttle

    johndtuttle Senior Member

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    I struggle with this question all the time. I can huck a lure about 75% of the distance I get with spinning gear, with about 50% of the accuracy with about 25% of the time I get minor backlashes that untangle with a few strips of line to clear. But what if that happens right as a 150lb YFT inhales my popper? You could get the rod snatched right out of your hands EASY.

    So clearly I am no master of conventional casting but I have never seen anyone that casts conventional that never gets a backlash when he really tries for that extra few yards, cast control or no. 2 speeds would be super nice for 100+lb fish (esp when I get a chance to get into 200lb fish), but the question I am always left with is why?

    I can cast spinning with 1/1000 the brain power and deliver it to where I need it to be with far greater accuracy, no tangles, no fuss. The line capacity on Spinning reels is every bit as good for the same or better casting distance. So what are the drawbacks?

    1. Can't put the rod on the rail which is a consideration when you get into the big 'uns and they are under the boat.

    2. 2-3x times the cost :( for the same level of performance/quality.

    3. No reel lugs and after market straps are a little funky with the long butt lengths of most popping rods.

    4. No 2 speed option.

    Most of the west coast guys will rave about the Avets for casting, Daiwa saltiga/saltist as well. Accurate very good and Penn Torque too. In this class of reel they all have their fans.

    Is 2 speeds a requirement?
     
  8. TBaker

    TBaker Senior Member

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    Thats because your from the left coast Tony ha ha LMAO all west coast guys cast conventional great

    True enough! Actually, its not only growing up on the West Coast, but also growing up in an era when serious saltwater gear was ONLY conventional (that was awhile ago). If you wanted to cast iron for serious fish, you had to learn. Not like today.
     
  9. TBaker

    TBaker Senior Member

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    So clearly I am no master of conventional casting but I have never seen anyone that casts conventional that never gets a backlash when he really tries for that extra few yards

    Its just like golf, that attempt to get a few extra yards on the drive geneerally results in a lost ball. The key is the same: don't do it!

    I struggle with this question all the time. I can huck a lure about 75% of the distance I get with spinning gear, with about 50% of the accuracy with about 25% of the time I get minor backlashes that untangle with a few strips of line to clear. But what if that happens right as a 150lb YFT inhales my popper? You could get the rod snatched right out of your hands EASY.

    cast control or no. 2 speeds would be super nice for 100+lb fish (esp when I get a chance to get into 200lb fish), but the question I am always left with is why?

    I can cast spinning with 1/1000 the brain power and deliver it to where I need it to be with far greater accuracy, no tangles, no fuss. The line capacity on Spinning reels is every bit as good for the same or better casting distance. So what are the drawbacks?

    1. Can't put the rod on the rail which is a consideration when you get into the big 'uns and they are under the boat.

    2. 2-3x times the cost :( for the same level of performance/quality.

    3. No reel lugs and after market straps are a little funky with the long butt lengths of most popping rods.

    4. No 2 speed option.

    Most of the west coast guys will rave about the Avets for casting, Daiwa saltiga/saltist as well. Accurate very good and Penn Torque too. In this class of reel they all have their fans.

    Is 2 speeds a requirement?

    I think you speak for a lot of folks, as well. For most who haven't mastered it, its hard to justify trying conventional for casting for the reasons you mention. On the other hand, you can get the advantage of lugs and 2-speed with conventional. However, up to this point I haven't seen a 2-speed conventional and/or one with lugs that really has the freespool or design to make it a great casting reel. That may soon change (or I'm just unaware). I'd be in heaven with one of those! :)
     
  10. BretABaker

    BretABaker Guest

    IMO you dont need 2 speed until you get into some big big fish. sure its nice, but as long as the reel you're using has a proper ratio and some something absurdly high, you should be ok. everything is a compromise in some way.
     
  11. gman

    gman Senior Member

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    IMO you dont need 2 speed until you get into some big big fish. sure its nice, but as long as the reel you're using has a proper ratio and some something absurdly high, you should be ok. everything is a compromise in some way.


    Personally I love the low speed while fighting a fish. I only used low when i had my accurate 665's
     
  12. BretABaker

    BretABaker Guest

    yeah but the high speed on that was too high at 6:1 so you lost a ton of torque. try the ocea 4000p, saltiga, trinidad, etc that have a 4:1 - 5:1 ratio and it makes a huge difference in the cranking power.

    that being said, you only used the low gear bc i broke your high gear ;)
     
  13. word-doctor

    word-doctor Senior Member

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    I am by no means an expert caster with conventionals--I grew up inland using spinners. But after converting my 4/0 to a narrow with a JVariance kit, I went up to the practice field. I surprised myself by pitching 30 yards with a 2 oz sinker; that was as much as I dared without a glove (to save my thumb). With a glove I could get more distance... ditto with a little more weight. Oh, and this was with an old Sabre rock-cod rod that doesn't load up at all.

    While I'll still use my Spheros for light swimbaits, I'd feel plenty good about my conventional outfit as a backup or for irons. It has a 4:1 SS gearset and produces over 20# of drag.
     
  14. TBaker

    TBaker Senior Member

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    IMO you dont need 2 speed until you get into some big big fish. sure its nice, but as long as the reel you're using has a proper ratio and some something absurdly high, you should be ok. everything is a compromise in some way.

    Ah, youth! :) No doubt with the right gear ratio you should be ok with most fish we go after (and you're more ok than most of us). BUT, my answer wasn't about compromising. It was about an ideal. 2-speed with great freespool, strength, lightweight, (and even lugs) would be fabulous. Think about casting poppers and big stickbaits to big BFT in Cape Cod and tell me such a reel wouldn't be a beautiful thing. ;)
     
  15. TBaker

    TBaker Senior Member

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    Having said all that, back to the original question. For most of the YFT you'll catch here in the US, 2-speed is not a requirement. As Bret said, a real good single-speed with a 4-4.5 gear ratio and putting out 20-25 lbs. of drag should be able to handle just about anything you'll run into.
     
  16. fishinmachine

    fishinmachine Member

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    Ok guys, dumb question from a rookie who grew up fishing sweetwater and is just recently getting the offshore itch.
    Why does the retrieve ratio matter? Do we move a fish with the reel, or do we use rod pressure to gain line and essentially store the line on the reel, retrieving a bit during the "down" stroke of the lift up/reel down cycle of a fight?
    I think I'll wind up being a conventionals guy...but then I haven't yet had the chance to uncork a long cast with a good spinning rig, either.


    FM
     
  17. snarfer35

    snarfer35 Junior member

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    I've had great success with a Torium 30 with upgraded drag washers on a 7' rod. I'm looking to upgrade to a 7'6"OTI. I grew bass fishing so I've always used conventional reels.
     
  18. Nepptune

    Nepptune Senior Member

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    I grew up on conventionals cause here in South Africa, thats what you do, unless you were an inland tourist carp fisherman visiting the coast for your yearly holiday to fish for "Real fish"....

    Once you are used to COnventionals, they become awesome tools, and like an extention of you... look at the bass guys who flip conventionals all day... granted, there is a big difference between bass reels and Trinidad 40's, but in principle its pretty close...

    My issues with overheads are that generally requires a much longer rodf to use the same size lures, especially in the smaller sizes, to achieve the same distance.... you also need far more space on the boat to cast a overhead in my experience.... Spinning rigs as has been mentioned, are no brainer, flick, chuck, backhand, pitch, sling, whatever you want, you can do it without fear of backlash.... You can be sure that during a boil up of Tuna just off the bow, thats when its more likely that you gonna get that dreaded backlash on your overhead....

    Another factor is guiding the line onto your spool while retrieving... this often means having to glance down at your reel while retrieving.... taking your eye off the lure whilst retrieving in my opinion is the worst thing you can do while popping as you stand the chance to either miss seeing the fish hit your lure, which is the best moment in fishing anywhere, why give it up... or you miss seeeing how a fish reacts to your lure, or chases it etc... you might need to speed up, or slow down or whatever in reaction to the fishes actions... can't do that if you not watching a lure....

    ANother point for me would be the difficulty in working some of the lures like Stickbaits or Swimbaits, which don't just require a flat out winding of the lure... you gotta work the rod, to get the right action, same with cupped poppers.... With a spinning rig, this is pretty easy as the reel below the rod holds the balance, and you can use your rod arm to "work" the bait... not such an easy thing with an overhead, especially when you get to the size overheads you need for chasing tuna.... unless you've got HUEG hands and Popeye forearms, but even then, its gonna get tiring.


    Please don't think I'm all against overheads here, I'm a jigging nut and 80% of my jigging is done with overheads, Ocea Jiggers and Alutecnos Gorilla12C's... and the rest with Stellas, which I love.... But for my popping/casting gear, its exclusively spinning rigs.... I have a little Shimano Calcutta 400B on a 7' St.Croix I use for fishing light inshore work, but thats about it...

    If you are serious about popping/plugging and casting less than 100 yards, then spinners are the way forward in my humble opinion, and I was raised on conventionals....

    My 2 cents.... ;)
     
  19. TBaker

    TBaker Senior Member

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    Why does the retrieve ratio matter? Do we move a fish with the reel, or do we use rod pressure to gain line and essentially store the line on the reel, retrieving a bit during the "down" stroke of the lift up/reel down cycle of a fight?
    FM

    Ah, such a great question! It seems so logical. Just as you would with bass fishing, we primarily use the rod to lift and gain line with the reel on the downstroke. So it would seem that gear ratio would be irrelevant. BUT, then go out and hook up on some big tunas or AJs and you discover the difference real fast. ;)

    You see, in something like bass fishing there will be little pressure on the reel on the downstroke so the amount of torque the reel can generate doesn't really matter. Definitely not the case offshore! With drag pressure at 18-20 lbs. or more and a very large and strong critter at the other end, I can assure you there can still be lots of pressure even on the downstroke. Thats when you need the torque a lower gear ratio will give. And that doesn't even cover the times you hook into a real bad boy where you really can't lift! :eek: At that point, the rod has limited use for gaining line and your primary tool is the reel. Thats why 2-speed reels were invented. Pop it into low gear (like 1.5-2:1) and winch away. The difference is amazing!
     
  20. fishinmachine

    fishinmachine Member

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    And that doesn't even cover the times you hook into a real bad boy where you really can't lift! :eek:

    Ooooooooo....................Toto, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore.

    I guess I have a lot to learn.