Spheros 14000FB Drag?

Discussion in 'Tackle and Rigging' started by John_Madison CT, Mar 14, 2009.

  1. John_Madison CT

    John_Madison CT Senior Member

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    Guys,

    I picked up a Shimano Spheros 14000FB. I've read a lot about the drag upgrades on the 14000FA, but wondered if it's necessary to do this with the FB.

    Anyone know?

    Thanks,

    John
     
  2. hog

    hog Member

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    I cant answer your question with any sort of professional quality, but I do know I have 3 spheros and the first thing I did after buying each of them at seperate dates was contact SMOoOTH DRAG and got that lady to send me come carbon tx washers (already had the cals grease).

    I figure, the washers are so inexpensive as in comparison to a single fishing trip and even less than one decent verticle jig or even the braid cost, that I would rather be safe than sorry.

    Just my way of think'n , which might not be right ;-)

    Good luck with your reel, you'll like it if mounted on a good rod..

    Hog
     

  3. pametfisher

    pametfisher Senior Member

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    Guys,

    I picked up a Shimano Spheros 14000FB. I've read a lot about the drag upgrades on the 14000FA, but wondered if it's necessary to do this with the FB.

    Anyone know?

    Thanks,

    John

    John,

    I don't know about getting the drag upgraded for smoothness, but I have wondered about how much heat they can take and posted some thoughts here, Drag Heat Dissipation, earlier today. Just food for thought.

    PF
     
  4. SpecialK

    SpecialK Super Moderator

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    The stock drag in my saragosa was worn paper thin afater a few decent YFT runs. I switch them out with carbontex from smooth drag when I got the replacement cap in the mail.
     
  5. John_Madison CT

    John_Madison CT Senior Member

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    Pametfisher: Thanks for the link on the "other" board. Excellent read.

    After taking an outside look at the drag system of the 14000FB, it's incredible to me that it can get the drag they claim. (44lbs.)

    John
     
  6. pametfisher

    pametfisher Senior Member

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    Pametfisher: Thanks for the link on the "other" board. Excellent read.

    After taking an outside look at the drag system of the 14000FB, it's incredible to me that it can get the drag they claim. (44lbs.)

    John

    John,

    I don't think getting the 44 lbs. is that hard, enough washers and drag material with a big spring and you're there. The challenge is making that drag useful by getting rid of the heat.

    I'm wondering if there is any thermal compound, as is used in electronics, to conduct the heat from the washers to the spool. As of yet, I don't know.

    PF
     
  7. d-a

    d-a Senior Member

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    I'm wondering if there is any thermal compound, as is used in electronics, to conduct the heat from the washers to the spool. As of yet, I don't know.

    PF

    The whole aluminum spool is working as a heat sink for the drag.

    d-a
     
  8. pametfisher

    pametfisher Senior Member

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    The whole aluminum spool is working as a heat sink for the drag.

    d-a

    Yes, I agree, that's the way it is supposed to work but heat and electricity flow in the same way. The key to efficient heat flow is conduction which means that there needs to be a lot of contact between the heat source (drag washers) and the heat sink (spool).

    The melted Saragosa drag caps would be evidence that the washers are getting very hot because the heat isn't being dissipated well to the spool. I'm going to weigh a set of drag washers and a spool and run the numbers but it will be a while before I can.

    I'll assume that the metal drag washers are stainless steel and the spools are mainly aluminum.
     
  9. d-a

    d-a Senior Member

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    Yes, I agree, that's the way it is supposed to work but heat and electricity flow in the same way. The key to efficient heat flow is conduction which means that there needs to be a lot of contact between the heat source (drag washers) and the heat sink (spool).

    The melted Saragosa drag caps would be evidence that the washers are getting very hot because the heat isn't being dissipated well to the spool. I'm going to weigh a set of drag washers and a spool and run the numbers but it will be a while before I can.

    I'll assume that the metal drag washers are stainless steel and the spools are mainly aluminum.

    The melted drag cap could be from the fact that shimano used a lower temp plastic in the making of the original drag caps. Once you heat everything up it (heat) will find the weakest link. So far in the saragossa it was the original lower temp plastic caps. If the spool was heating up too much it would cause integrity problems(heat damage) with the braid, and we haven't had that happen yet.

    Since theres never been a documented (that i know of) heat problem causing spool lock up associated with the Dartanium or carbontex drag washers, I would not worry about it. Theres more things to loose sleep over, Like why were not fishing, than this.:D

    d-a
     
  10. pametfisher

    pametfisher Senior Member

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    The melted drag cap could be from the fact that shimano used a lower temp plastic in the making of the original drag caps. Once you heat everything up it (heat) will find the weakest link. So far in the saragossa it was the original lower temp plastic caps. If the spool was heating up too much it would cause integrity problems(heat damage) with the braid, and we haven't had that happen yet.

    Since theres never been a documented (that i know of) heat problem causing spool lock up associated with the Dartanium or carbontex drag washers, I would not worry about it. Theres more things to loose sleep over, Like why were not fishing, than this.:D

    d-a

    LOL, well you've got me there ... I would much rather be fishing than thinking about fishing. But here in NE, where I'm looking out at CC Bay at the moment, the temperature was 33 this morning. So my mind runs to preparation for when a "warm" 45 degree day lets me venture out.

    Worried though wouldn't describe my frame of mind, I would say I'm interested. I got out the text books and ran the numbers but I need to weigh a few spools before giving the answer.

    How long before you hit the water?
     
  11. d-a

    d-a Senior Member

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    LOL, well you've got me there ... I would much rather be fishing than thinking about fishing. But here in NE, where I'm looking out at CC Bay at the moment, the temperature was 33 this morning. So my mind runs to preparation for when a "warm" 45 degree day lets me venture out.

    Worried though wouldn't describe my frame of mind, I would say I'm interested. I got out the text books and ran the numbers but I need to weigh a few spools before giving the answer.

    How long before you hit the water?

    If it wasnt for a month long buisness trip i just got back from I would be on the water every month, but it will likely be monday or tuesday now followed up with a tuna trip this coming weekend.

    d-a
     
  12. BretABaker

    BretABaker Guest

    pamet - only 2 weeks until cod opens up again :)
     
  13. Jason4606

    Jason4606 Tuna Club member

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    John - the whole issue with dartanium is that it will dissentigrate, and they are very brittle so if you ever choose to service the drag and drop one it's probably toast... So eventually they will likely need to be replaced.

    My thought was, if I was likely going to have do it someday, why not take advantage of smoother, permanent material from day one?
     
  14. pametfisher

    pametfisher Senior Member

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    pamet - only 2 weeks until cod opens up again :)

    You know, I haven't gotten into Cod fishing ... and me, living on Cape Cod. That's a good idea, and you've got me thinking. Still though, if the temps are in the low 30s, I think I'll stick with skiing. ;)
     
  15. pametfisher

    pametfisher Senior Member

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    A warning in advance, this will be boring.

    The question is, how much will the temperature of a spinning reel spool rise if a fish pulls 175 yards of line against 20 pounds of initial drag?

    The answer is, if the spool weighs about 8 ounces, the temperature will rise about 160 degrees Fahrenheit. So if it's 75 degrees outside and the spool is at that temperature, it could rise to 235 degrees.

    Then, it will start to cool down and release its heat to the air. But metal doesn't cool very fast and there's a lot of insulation on the spool (Spectra line).

    How did I come up with that number?

    delta T= Btu's/(mass x specific heat of aluminum)

    Btu= 26 lbs. average drag x 175 yards x 3 ft per yard divided by 778= 17.5 Btu
    Specific heat of aluminum = 0.22
    Weight of spool = 8 ounces (I'm not positive since I don't have spool handy but my 704z spool is 4 ounces so I doubled it.)

    What could change the answer:

    1. If the fish runs slowly, some of the heat will bleed off and the temperature might not rise the full amount.

    2. The thermal contact from the drag washers to the spool could be poor. The temperature of the spool would rise more slowly. BUT THE DRAG STACK WOULD GET VERY HOT ALTHOUGH YOU MIGHT NOT KNOW IT.

    3. This assumes that all the heat from the drag stack gets to the spool very quickly (good). And that every drag washer is at the same temperature.

    4. Since the drag stack is like a layer cake in the Spheros and Saragosa. It is CERTAIN that the top washer will be much hotter than the bottom one that touches the spool. I haven't estimated by how much but I'm sure there's an engineer listening who could make a first-order calculation.

    So here's my educated guess of what happens:

    The heat doesn't hit the spool instantly so the temperature at the bottom of the stack increases to 200 degrees but the temperature at the top of the stack (nicely insulated and hidden from us by the Drag Cap) is at 250 degrees or so.

    This is why I like big washers on the bottom of the spool.

    (Snore.)

    If the fish runs two or three times in quick succession, the temperature would get a lot higher.

    (Snore.)
     
  16. Gozz

    Gozz Senior Member

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    I sent a email to our shimano dealer regarding the drag knob upgrade here in Aus and this is the response I got back.


    [ Drag knobs have not been re designed, grease is to be applied between
    drag knob and top drag washer to dissipate friction heat.

    Tim Schofield
    Dunphy Sports Fishing/Imports Pty. Ltd. ]


    That's what you call being in the "know".
     
  17. fish4stripers

    fish4stripers Senior Member

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    Gozz,

    Shimano USA told me spheros knob did not get changed. I upgraded to carbontex and greased under cap. They sent me a new knob for my saragosa.
     
  18. Gozz

    Gozz Senior Member

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    Gozz,

    Shimano USA told me spheros knob did not get changed. I upgraded to carbontex and greased under cap. They sent me a new knob for my saragosa.


    Sorry forgot to mention.
    I sent them the email regarding my 18000 Saragosa.
     
  19. hawgs

    hawgs Member

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    Gozz: I recently bought a 18000 Saragosa and contacted Shimano regarding the drag cap replacement.

    The first guy I talked to said you have to have a special tool to replace it so I'd have to send in my entire reel and let them do it.

    The second guy I talked to said it's easy to replace, you just need a set of snap ring pliers. He sent me the part and I replaced it in 5 minutes. It's very easy. I also replaced the drag washers with Carbontex washers while I was doing it.

    The only part that is replaced is the black plastic piece in the center when you remove the drag cap. The newer piece seems to be made of a tougher plastic.
     
  20. Gozz

    Gozz Senior Member

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    Thanks Hawgs.
    This guy I spoke to through email seems to think there is no such replacement.

    I'm in Australia so that could be part of the problem.

    I changed my washers also and the smoothness is so much better then the original washers.