Slow-pitch jigging- The truth............... I WAS WRONG!!!!!!!

Discussion in 'Jigging and Popping' started by lite-liner, Aug 29, 2018.

  1. jiggawhat

    jiggawhat Senior Member

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    nojiri welcome to 360....we needs more contributing members on this topic. thanks
     
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  2. ballywho

    ballywho Well-Known Member

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    Which yo-zuri is that ? The "super braid" ? May have to try that.

    I'm very surprised about your findings on EX8. Personnaly I have been amazed by the pe2 the first times I tried it.

    Also very surpised about your opinion on J-braid. I consider it to be one of the most, if not THE most unreliable braid around. I have respooled countless reels that had J-braid on because of repeted and unexplained break-offs. No later then this week a client had to respool 2 of his reels that had J-braid of various diameters. I've had one bad spool of EX8 one day (a pe6), so i would think it can happen but be the exception. I've also seen a few guys using J-braid with no issue, but I'm pretty much considering good spools of J-braid to be the exception.
    I also don't see a brand like Shimano selling a rubbish product as their top of the line, OCEA stamped braid. Especially in Japan their home market. I've got many big fish with that braid from pe2 to pe6, and always been amazed with the amount of drag it would handle regarding to it's finesse. I also remember struggling because I could not thumb the reel hard enough to break a pe4 that was snagged on the bottom.

    I'm not saying I'm doubting your results, you've probably fished way more lines than I did during your testing, but I am really, really surprised. It's quite simply the opposite of my experiences. We do agree on Jerry brown being a top product, though. That's all I use for casting.

    Which shows again that in fishing, nothing is set in stone and different people may have very different experiences with teh same product.
    Could also be that Europe has been flooded with a large bad batch of J-braid at some point.

    Would love to find a cheaper alternative to the EX8, though... I also fish the YGK Ultra Jigman at times but for me it's not as good as the Shimano.
    I finally tried some Berkley Fused Crystal while fishing for bonefish and this line looks very unique and interesting for a jigging application as it looks "solid" (ie does not "debraid" itself when you twist it between your fingers, which is the first thing I do when I see a new braid, and a very good way to see if it will be strong and good for jigging). Looks like the rating for Crystal is completely different than any other line, though, almost look like a mono rating. Was using the 4 pound for bonefish and I swear it would be rated as 12 pounds if it was a Power pro maxCuatro... Looking forward to try it around 15/20 pound for slow-jigging. Looks like it would cut through the water VERY well.
    Will make sure to check that yo-zuri as well.

    Ray, what ABS did you find on the Shimano EX8 pe 2 ??? As I see it it should be about midway between a JB solid 20 pounds and a JB solid 30 pounds. Would love to hear what you found.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2018

  3. r.sheker

    r.sheker Member

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    Pierre, the EX8 PE2 stated breaking strength is 40#+, on the test result, actual breaking strength is 33.9#.
    With regards to jbraid 30#, it is a pretty good line. I have converted Benny to it and he is still using it.

    i have settled on yozuri, i trust the results of the experiments.
    I also have a friend, a commercial fisherman, that i convinced to try the line for me, he fishes 360 days a year, 8-12hrs per day, and has been pretty pleased with the line. He complained about everything else, jbraid, jerry brown 30, fins 40g, ultracast, powerpro, sufix832 but i havent heard any bitching about the yozuri yet.
     
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  4. ballywho

    ballywho Well-Known Member

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    My understanding is that Takamitechnos has different lineups according to their action. Mine is the MOZ 3LM. Compared to the Poseidon (I have the 4), the thing is a noodle. The Takamitechnos is thin as hell all the way and will bend all the way to the butt. I'm talking about the butt cap here, not the reel seat ! It is a very strange feeling as you can feel the rod bend under your hand that hold the reel.

    You can see it bend here, at 11:38, it's pretty impressive:



    I have not fished the takamitechnos nor the Poseidon enough to give you an educated opinion/comparison. But the Takamitechnos is unique and unlike any of my other slow-jigging rods. It's a lot of fun on very small fish. I've pushed it hard while fighting an estimated 45/50 kilo turtle for 20 minutes before having to cut the line. That was on pe2 EX8 and the rod could handle pretty much the max drag of the Daiwa Saltiga 15H star drag reel.
    Again, did not fished it a lot. Not even sure I would like it in the long run. Amazing rod, though. Would be a blast for the average mutton on pe2.
     
  5. ballywho

    ballywho Well-Known Member

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    Will give the Yo-zuri a try for sure, then. As much as I love the EX8, it's crazy expensive and a pain to import.
     
  6. ballywho

    ballywho Well-Known Member

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    For those reading that, they have to understand the difference between US and Japanese rating. The Shimano EX8 is rated as "max", which is basically the ABS (actual breaking strength). The J-braid is rated for international market, so the J-braid 30 lbs is a pe3.

    This how you end up with pe6 lines rated for 90 lbs while a company like Jerry Brown would rate it around 60.
    Or the EX8 pe3 rated for 60 lbs while the J-braid 30 pound is a pe3.

    Many people get confused about line rating. When I recommend tackle for a fishing trip, I always state: 80 pound line (US) or pe8 (Japanese), as I've seen too many people coming to fish cubera with pe5 or pe6 lines as they thought it was a proper 80 lbs line.... Nope !

    Ray, if you don't mind, do you have the ABS and diam of the Jbraid 15 lbs Vs the Shimano EX8 pe2 ?
    Both are supposed to be pe2 so would be interesting to know...
     
  7. r.sheker

    r.sheker Member

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    Daiwa JBraid 15# STATED :15# ABS: 27.87# STATED DIA: 0.19mm ACTUAL DIA: 0.268mm

    at 0.26mm actual dameter it is actually a perfect pe2.5

    all details is on my site Pierre, under blogs>line capacity calculator.
    i have so much data right now on actual line capacity f reels with picturesbut i just dont have the time to update the site right now.
     
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  8. scubaarchery

    scubaarchery Senior Member

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    I picked up some Berkeley crystal. It’s all on sale at the Berkeley site if you use the newell22 discount code (see pure fishing thread)
     
  9. nojiri

    nojiri Active Member

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    Ballywho, I don't really feel like I'm missing bites with the 5-crank high-pitch, but probably because of the eco-system/food chain that we usually fish. Our typical scenario is fishing structures where we might have grouper lurking around the bottom, rockfish hiding in the structure, then above that AJs, yellowtail, and maybe YFT. The grouper will easily chase their prey 20ft. off the bottom, so when we slow down at 15ft. they still have a chance to chase. In Japanese, we call the 5-crank high pitch "sasoi" (enticement), and the fall at 15ft. "kuwaseru" (getting them to hit). The AJs and yellowtail typically don't hit at the very bottom, and then also, because the 5-crank high-pitch is quick, even if they chase and hit, by then we're 15ft. off the bottom. The species that won't chase prey on the high-pitch are the rockfish. That's probably because it puts them in danger of getting eaten by the grouper and AJs when they leave the cover of the structure. If we're not getting hits up the water column, up to maybe 50ft. up, then we'll slow down the initial 5-crank to a medium or slow pitch and many times get the rockfish then. One interesting thing that I've found that I totally wasn't expecting is getting YFT at the very bottom. They're very fast swimmers, of course, and I think they follow the jig while it's falling, and then on the 5-crank high-pitch off the bottom, BOOM, a nice YFT hit! But since they're an open water fish, they just head for open water and there's not much danger of getting reefed. Fun stuff! :D

    On getting reefed with PE5 and 80# leaders, wow! I think you get much bigger fish than we do.

    Cheers!
     
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  10. nojiri

    nojiri Active Member

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    Here's a chart that might be helpful in understanding the Japanese PE braid reference system.

    From left to right are the following columns:

    1) PE reference number (Japanese)
    2) Average Breaking Strength in lbs.
    3) Average Breaking Strength in kgs.
    4) Standard Value (don’t know anyone who uses that)
    5) Standard diameter in mm

    Japanese PE Braid Specs.jpg

    Cheers!
     
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  11. iyaman

    iyaman Senior Member

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    After trying this technique (of course, the best I could as a newbie ) in Alaska, I'm glad I had given it a try. Thank you Ray (RCW) for the crash course on this technique and sending all the gears. I'll post some pics and videos after I fix my fish.

    I'm glad this thread is 7 pages now containing good info for us beginners. Thank you. Welcome Nojiri! Glad you joined.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2018
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  12. tugasangler

    tugasangler Fishing Guru

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    I have fireline crystal currently on one reel and I have used plenty of j braid ... I honestly haven’t heard of people having issues ... and I would say getting the big 1500m spools would be the safer bet. I have caught some really big fish on j braid ... I also high speed wahoo troll with j braid and have had not one single failure since installing line in April’ 2017 with several Trips since then

    Also where I fish if I’m deep jigging it’s usually with minimum 12 other anglers so I can’t use the thinnest lines to get down because once I get bit I want to catch that fish .
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2018
  13. GARRIGA

    GARRIGA Senior Member

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    Installed Yozuri super braid 300 yard spool of 50 on oj2k yesterday and it took the entire spool. Based on Shimano specs stating 300 yards of PE 4 than I take it this line is equivalent in thickness to PE 4 or at minimum how Shimano gauges pe 4 and this reel.

    This is how things get confusing and why I prefer actual reel capacity of any line to estimate what I’m working with thickness wise. Unless I was sold an underfilled spool. I’ll have to walk it off in a field and measure that distance to really know.
     
  14. benwah22

    benwah22 Well-Known Member

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    Walking off 900 feet of line in a field definitely sounds reasonable.
     
  15. GARRIGA

    GARRIGA Senior Member

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    I have a long field, done it before and just reeled manually that distance. How do you think I got the line on the reel? Plus best way to pack line back on tight after a trip. ;)
     
  16. benwah22

    benwah22 Well-Known Member

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    One would think that with so many 'go big' jigs that you would have reeled up with appropriate tension as to have a tightly packed spool.
     
  17. GARRIGA

    GARRIGA Senior Member

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    You’d think but that’s not reality. Best I’ve found is putting a slight side bend in the rod then load under tension. Not something one should consider with snoopy rods. Why I’m using my Big Fall sticks to pack my Big Drag reels. The devil is in the details. Why snoopy rods should come with warning labels.
     
  18. HungryJack

    HungryJack Member

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    In your suggestion,
    when loading the reel under tension,
    using your hand, dowel, book, etc,
    that tension/drag is far greater than the
    bend in the rod is causing,
    thus negating any "benefit" from the rod having a bend in it,
    this is basic physics.
    If the bend is applying 5lbs of tension, and the tensioning device
    that is closer to the reel is applying 30lbs of tension, the 5lb from
    the rod is negated by the 30, and thus has NO EFFECT.


    There is no reason or benefit to putting a bend in the rod when spooling
    the reel using tension from another source,

    your extensive testing, in another universe, with different Laws of Physics
    obviously show different results. :rolleyes:

    Just another case of you doing stuff with no clue of what you are actually doing.

    Go debate Issac Newton if you think I'm wrong.

    PS> would also like to point out that spooling machines do not need or use a rod to spool a reel, maybe you need to reinvent this aspect of fishing, since we got it all wrong.

    PPS> do you find some benefit to the bits of grass and dirt your line picks up
    from the field ?

    and then you smash it into the line under tension, then pack it on your reel :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2018
  19. tugasangler

    tugasangler Fishing Guru

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    Ok we get it you’re saying he’s wrong ... this is an excerpt where someone is allowed to be wrong . He wasn’t being belligerent in his usually banter .. when he deserves and you fry his ass I’m
    All for it .. but when he’s trying and you’re still doing it .. it makes you look like it’s more than what you’re saying as your issue to him . I could have made the same post or many and I doubt you’d speak to us the same

    This post is finally
    Getting good and neither one of you will be involved in it and many things in the future if you both don’t quit taking digs at one another with only a little more intellect than children. Then getting mad at the other when he reciprocates ... Jack cmon , just cause you say a couple more sound things than ALEX doesn’t make you any less annoying trust me .. and I’m in no way picking a fight with you. My concern is that this post continue to educate me .. not on line spooling, but jigging.
     
  20. HungryJack

    HungryJack Member

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    He posts BAD INFORMATION on a continuous basis.
    Most of the time, his suggestions work against what is trying to be accomplished.

    I POINT THIS OUT SO OTHER FISHERMEN
    DO NOT ADOPT THESE IDEAS
    THAT ARE COUNTER PRODUCTIVE TO CATCHING FISH.


    Because its the same Googan doing it over and over
    in every thread,
    the hammer comes out,
    and its well deserved IMO.

    In this case in am "helping/educating" by pointing out
    what NOT to do, and why.


    Back to your SPJ,
    labeled as Snoopy Pitch Jig by the all knowing one. :)