shimano trinidad 30 rebuild

Discussion in 'Reel Repair' started by alantani, Dec 21, 2007.

  1. alantani

    alantani Senior Member

    453
    4
    this arrived in the mail last month.

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    and with it came a note.

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    i called the owner and we spoke for quite a while. i carefully explained to him what i thought the cause was, what his options were and where i thought this reel would now fit in his arsenal. what we finally settled on were carbontex drags, an anti-reverse roller bearing, tube and dog, and an oversized handle grip.

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    first, go to the shimano website for the schematic.

    http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Conventional/tn_30_v1_m56577569830570264.pdf

    to service the spool bearings, remove the left side plate screws (key #767).

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    remove the left side plate assembly (key #307).

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    remove the spool (key #498).

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    i see plenty of corroded rod clamps (key #351, 352, 353, and 354). let's grease the bolts so we don't have to worry about this anymore.

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    now for the right spool bearing. remove the four brake shaft holder screws (key #312), the brake shaft holder (key #313) and the four brake collars (key #257). this will make it easier to remove the right spool bearing. for a spool this big, the brakes are of limited benefit. they will not be re-installed.

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1080.JPG

    the right spool bearing (no key #) is 6x12x4mm and is rusted. it's a common problem. to remove the bearing, we need to remove the cross pin (no key #). squeeze the cross pin halfway with a pair of vise grips that have a slot cut it in.

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1081.JPG

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1082.JPG

    now we're going to use the drill press to push the pin out the rest of the way. i've tried to punch them out freehand. it's not easy.

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1083.JPG

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1084.JPG

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1085.JPG

    install the new bearing and cross pin.

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1086.JPG

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1087.JPG

    center the cross pin with the vise grips.

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1088.JPG

    the left side plate bearing (key #484) is 4x11x4mm. remove the bearing retainer (key #318).

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1089.JPG

    loosen the three "br" set plate screws (key #328) that surround the bearing.

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1090.JPG

    pull the bearing out with your bearing pulling tool.

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1091.JPG

    this bearing is fine, so let's clean it out with carb cleaner and compressed air, lube it with corrosion x and re-install it.

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1092.JPG

    torque down the "br" set plate screws (key #328).

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1093.JPG

    reinstall the bearing retainer (key #318).

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1094.JPG

    put a very tiny bead of grease in the screw holes, or better yet, on the screws themselves.

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1095.JPG

    install the spool (key #498).

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1097.JPG

    install the side plate assembly (key #340) and add a thin film of grease around the screw hole.

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1096.JPG

    torque down the left side plate screws (key #767)

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1099.JPG

    now watch it spin!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1100.JPG

    now for the right side. first, remove the handle nut plate screw (key #128).

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1101.JPG

    remove the handle nut and plate (key #'s 261 and 262).

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1102.JPG

    remove the handle (key #495) and drive shaft shield (key #264).

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1103.JPG

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1156.JPG

    remove the star drag (key #265).

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1105.JPG

    remove the click pin (key #295) and click spring (key #296).

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1106.JPG

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1107.JPG

    remove the star drag washer (key #266), the drag spring washer 9L (key #267), the drag spring washer 9H (key #268), the bearing thrust washer (key #269), and the bearing seal (key #270).

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1108.JPG

    remove the four right side plate screw A's (key #766).

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1109.JPG

    remove the two right side plate screw C's (key #765).

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1110.JPG

    remove the two right side plate screw D's (key #764).

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1111.JPG

    remove the right side plate (key #932). note that the right side plate (key #932), the drive shaft bearing (key #486), the roller clutch bearing (key #493), the roller clutch inner tube (key #494) and the line clip (key #280) are removed as a unit.

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1112.JPG

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1112.JPG

    now we're going to remove the drag stack. this is important. do not pull on the main gear (key 292) with the drag washers still in place. invariably, the anti-reverse ratchet (key #294) is pulled up as well. this damages the anti-reverse pawl (key #303).

    so, let's carefully remove each washer, one at a time.

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1116.JPG

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1117.JPG

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1118.JPG

    you can see where it's starting to stick.

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1119.JPG

    lift up the main gear (key #292), taking care to separate the main gear from drag washer A (key #418).

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1120.JPG

    remove drag washer A (key #418). note that this washer was sticky as well.

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1121.JPG

    remove the screws (key #305) and pawl keeper (key #306).

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1122.JPG

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1123.JPG

    carefully remove the anti-reverse ratchet (key #294) and the anti-reverse pawl (key #303) as a unit.

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1124.JPG

    let's take a look at the old pawl compared to a new one. note the dent and the increased spread of the springs. this is the reason that the pawl fails.

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1129.JPG

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1130.JPG

    re-install the pawl (key #303) and ratched gear (key #294) as a unit. lube the pawl with corrosion x first.

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1136.JPG

    re-install the pawl keeper (#306) and screws (key #305).

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1137.JPG

    now we're almost ready to grease and install the new carbontex drag washers.

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1138.JPG

    the carbontex washer that goes underneath the main gear is 1.14 mm thick.

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1139.JPG

    this is a penn ht-100 drag washer from a 4/0 senator, part #6-113h. it is a little thicker and the inside diameter is just a hair larger.

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1140.JPG

    i had noted that the drag pressure in a few trinidad's maxed out at 15#'s of drag using the thinner carbontex drag washer under the gear. by substituting the thicker penn ht-100 #6-113h, i was able to get 20#'s or better. so that's what i do now. it's no big deal for me, but might prove an inconvenience for you. this is not a consistent problem, so go with the stock carbontex drag washers first, check the drags, and then consider changing the washer under the gear if there is an issue.

    ok, now were ready! slap on a coat of cal's drag grease and install the washers. the excess will squeeze out the sides.

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1141.JPG

    install the drive gear (key #292).

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1142.JPG

    install the carbontex drag washers and metal washers in the order shown above. apply a generous coat of cal's drag grease to each carbontex drag washer.

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1143.JPG

    install a new roller clutch inner tube (key #494). a light coat of grease from your fingers is sufficient.

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1153.JPG

    now we will need to press out the old roller clutch bearing (key #493). sometimes it will press out easily by hand. if not, a pair of sockets, 10mm and 22mm will be very helpful. remove the drive shaft bearing (key # 486) first.

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1149.JPG

    place the 22mm socked under the side plate for support. use the 10mm socked to press out the roller clutch bearing.

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1150.JPG

    thumb pressure should be enough to press in the new clutch bearing.

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1151.JPG

    a light coat of corrosion x is probably the best compromise for lubricating the clutch bearing. it's difficult because a dry roller bearing will hold better, but rusts too easily. a heavily greased roller bearing will definitely not rust, but it may also not hold. accurate uses corrosion x. i think this gives you the best results as well.

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1152.JPG

    install the right side plate (key #932).

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1154.JPG

    install the right side plate screws (key #'s 764, 765 and 766).

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1155.JPG

    pack the drive shaft bearing (key #486) with grease and install it.

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1157.JPG

    install the bearing seal (key #270), the bearing thrust washer (key #269), the drag spring washer 9H (key #268), the drag spring washer 9L (key #267), and star drag washer (key #266).

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1159.JPG

    install the click spring (key #296) and click pin (key #295).

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1160.JPG

    to get the star (key #265) back on, there are two techniques. one is to use a toothpick. simply push the click pin (key #295) down, shove a toothpick into the hole in the drive shaft (key #930), and turn the star (key #265) down over the drive shaft.

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1166.JPG

    what i do is push the click pin (key #295) down with a small blade.

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1162.JPG

    now slide the drag star washer (key #266) over the click pin (key #295) so that it stays put. a small bead of grease is helpful here.

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1163.JPG

    install the star (key #265).

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1165.JPG

    install the drive shaft shield (key #264).

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1168.JPG

    now for the handle. a full handle assembly is made up of three parts; the arm, the grip and the spindle in the middle. i had an extra grip and spindle assembly made made by a local machine shop. first, drill out the back of the original spindle, punch it out, and bolt on the new grip and spindle.

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/11711.JPG

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1172.JPG

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1173.JPG

    add a light coat of grease to the handle arm. install the handle (key #495) and handle nut (key #262).

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1174.JPG

    install the handle nut plate (key #261) and screw (key #128).

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1175.JPG

    done!

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1176.JPG

    now, for a few comments. this is another excellent example of greased carbon fiber drag washers actually extending the functional drag range of a reel. dartanium drag washer system has been noted to become sticky over time, and/or at higher drag ranges. the stock drags in our reel were already starting to stick. carbontex with cal's grease will stay smooth forever, and at much higher drag settings. shimano recently offered and thicker drag pressure plate, a wider side plate and longer drive shaft upgrade for the trinidad because of drag problems with this reel. it is my opinion that none of this would have been necessary if they would have upgraded the reel to greased carbon fiber.

    i estimate that the drag system will now deliver an easy 25 pounds of drag. what i noted was that the handle started backing up a little at 22 pounds. this is the anti-reverse roller clutch bearing (key #493) that is starting to slip. what keeps the handle from moving backwards any further is the anti-reverse pawl (key #303). if both of these anti-reverse mechanisms fail sequentially, the handle will go knucklebuster on you. and it has.

    this combination anti-reverse system, gentlemen, is what i believe to be the achilles heel of the shimano trinidad, the shimano torium, the daiwa saltia and the daiwa saltist. please note that the trinidad 30 is rated on the shimano website for 350 yards of straight 30# mono and a maximum drag of 16.5 pounds. there is no mention of spectra anywhere, and probably for good reason. the anti-reverse system appears to limit the functional drag that this side plate can deliver. the trinidad "30" was apparently designed for straight 30 pound monofilament. perhaps this is simply a case of too much spool and not enough side plate for spectra.

    now, a discussion of problems is pointless without a discussion of possible solutions. to beef up the drag system, i see three possible solutions. first, the anti-reverse pawl could be spring loaded. the pawl would now click, just like a penn senator. second, a second anti-reverse pawl could be added. there is actually room on the opposide side of the ratched gear. the yoke plate (key #302) could be cut at the blue line to make room for the second pawl.

    http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/1147.JPG

    and finally, a second anti-reverse roller clutch bearing (key #493) could be added. simply stack one roller bearing on top of the other. this is the anti-reverse system that is used in the accurate boss series of reels. it would require a modification to the side plate, or a new side plate. it would also require a longer roller bearing tube and longer drive shaft. personally, i think a double roller bearing system would be the best option.
     
  2. straycatboat

    straycatboat Member

    159
    5
    Do you have any update for the Saltist 40 high speed reel
     

  3. spineyman

    spineyman Senior Member

    2,033
    57
    Do you have any update for the Saltist 40 high speed reel

    He does, go to www.alantani.com and you can find it there.
     
  4. hstsw

    hstsw Senior Member

    966
    115
    'shimano website for 350 yards of straight 30# mono and a maximum drag of 16.5 pounds.'
    Trinidad TN16-30 after 2005 should have 22# max drag - if anyone has Trinidad TN16-30 manufactured prior to 2005 will have a max drag of 16.5 lbs, but you can call Shimano 877-577-060 for free upgrade kit or send the reels back to have the upgrade.
    Great tutorial as always 'alantani'