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Paul,I personally am quite glad to see you use a spine finder unlike that other rod builder doing video and just spins it on the floor..to me you just can not nail the exact spine in that manner once so ever,,and this is the upmost important factor,as being off just slightly is unacceptable for a custom..maybe for mass production rods its fine.
Are you going to do the marbling again Paul?
 

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Paul,I personally am quite glad to see you use a spine finder unlike that other rod builder doing video and just spins it on the floor..to me you just can not nail the exact spine in that manner once so ever,,and this is the upmost important factor,as being off just slightly is unacceptable for a custom..maybe for mass production rods its fine.
Are you going to do the marbling again Paul?
My rods are not off. How do I know? I do the initial alignment with deflection on the floor and then the spine finder for final. Youtube video's are limited on time and I can not show everything, or I would have 40 video's for one build.
Get off my back dude. Im doing the best i can. I know what I said in the video but more importantly I know what I do when I build.
Try doing a video and narrating it at the same time. You will see what I mean.
Are you calling my work mass produced as compared to Paul's? Come on, give me a break. Know what you are saying before you type it. I am anything but mass produced. If that is what you are saying, the hairs on my neck are officially raised up.

Kevin
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
kevin.
i dont think he mentioned any one guy:confused: :confused:

i have not seen the video he is refering to.
there may be a few out there??

please dont sink the thread.


armbreaker.

marbling demo..
yes i will do again, i usually do once a year for the new students.
 

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Absolutely not Paul. I wouldn't think of it. I applaud you for doing all that you do with these classes. You and I know that the art of custom rod building is a dying art and it is our goal to get as many people as possible interested in this awesome craft.

You know as well as I do that that was a shot across my bow. Uncalled for and unneeded.
 

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My rods are not off. How do I know? I do the initial alignment with deflection on the floor and then the spine finder for final. Youtube video's are limited on time and I can not show everything, or I would have 40 video's for one build.
Get off my back dude. Im doing the best i can. I know what I said in the video but more importantly I know what I do when I build.
Try doing a video and narrating it at the same time. You will see what I mean.
Are you calling my work mass produced as compared to Paul's? Come on, give me a break. Know what you are saying before you type it. I am anything but mass produced. If that is what you are saying, the hairs on my neck are officially raised up.

Kevin

Kevin I sure didnt mean to come off sounding like that buddy,,just was that I did ask you about that and you still never mentioned a follow up with a spine finder,,thats great and perfect therefore,,and no I know as well as all others here youc ant mass produce beautiful rods as yours,,I was just saying thats what you would get ina mass produced rod,,and thats if your lucky,,they dont take time to spine them usually,,and sure dont take the xtra time to get them right on the money,,I know it for a fact as seen in so many pictures..I ahve a pic of the guys fishing from a Kayak and the rod is sure not spined correct,,ran off towards the top and boy you can see what happens right away ther,,the dudes face is like WTF!! lol
No Kevin,,didnt mean anything like that,,you do super work,,It was just the spine issue that was just eating me up and driving me crazy..I just knew there was no possible way to nail it without the spinefinder,,itsa easy and quick way at our disposal to nail thise spines so why not use them to be certain right?
Thanks Kevin you do great work.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
kevin.
honestly, i did not even see the video he was talking about.

i really dont watch to many videos.

so i cannot say i know.
 

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Kevin I sure didnt mean to come off sounding like that buddy,,just was that I did ask you about that and you still never mentioned a follow up with a spine finder,,thats great and perfect therefore,,and no I know as well as all others here youc ant mass produce beautiful rods as yours,,I was just saying thats what you would get ina mass produced rod,,and thats if your lucky,,they dont take time to spine them usually,,and sure dont take the xtra time to get them right on the money,,I know it for a fact as seen in so many pictures..I ahve a pic of the guys fishing from a Kayak and the rod is sure not spined correct,,ran off towards the top and boy you can see what happens right away ther,,the dudes face is like WTF!! lol
No Kevin,,didnt mean anything like that,,you do super work,,It was just the spine issue that was just eating me up and driving me crazy..I just knew there was no possible way to nail it without the spinefinder,,itsa easy and quick way at our disposal to nail thise spines so why not use them to be certain right?
Thanks Kevin you do great work.

Hairs are back down and I am going back into the cave to build some more rods. Thanks for the clarification Dave. You and I traded emails or posts about this and I have since taken down the video in question to better and more accurately show what I do. Its incredibly hard to do the video's and so many times I review them and say "Geez, why did I say that?" Its hard because I am concentrating 100% on the build and adding words o it makes it quite difficult.

Paul, sorry for the sidetrack. Back to your awesome classes........ TEACH ON!!!!!

Kevin
 

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Kevin never was any harm intended,just didnt realize that you also used a spine finder,,and it was just bugging the heck out of me wondering why you wouldnt use one or show it as it takes really 15 seconds to spine and mark..so easy and precise each and everytime,which is very good for the guys on here to know,newbies or oldies.
Now everyone..back to their caves! lol that's a good one and love it! Its so true..many hrs spent there and when you come out it sure does feel like that.
Beautiful work we ALL do on here and it's so very enjoyable to see all the different works of art on here,new concepts,ect..
 

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Paul,
I sure do wish I was closer so I could attend your classes ....Congrats on the great turn out .....Since we are talking about spining a rod I have a question ...

When checking the rod for spine as in the picture shown, is it possible to put the guides on the rod so that when casting , and loading up the rod , the rod will be set up so that the natural bend of the rod will be in the loading portion rather than the bend being the portion of the rod that bends to the water with a fish on ? ....

I don't know if I am explaining myself very well ....I am picturing a blank bending in one direction easily, which would make the rod bend LESS easily in the opposite directon .... I'm wanting to know if the easier direction of the rod bend can be used for the loading of the rod when casting , and the opposite direction of the rod bend be used for the rod being bent toward the water for the weight of the fish ....????......If I'm not explaining myself well, please let me know ....Thanks guys !!.....BTW ..You ALL make great rods ....I am in awe of ALL of you !!....Jim
 

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have not seen any of the videos referred to , neither the rod building ones or the Kayak fisher.
We need to be careful tho in not confusing potential poor flag layup design or simply stuff-ups in flag assembly in manufacturing blanks, with the effects of spine when viewing images of a loaded rod.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Jim.
the guides can be placed anywhere on the blank.

putting them in "the right place" is always open to debate.

We have a few very good engineres in our club, so we do very detailed trial and errors.
We will see stuff posted on the internet, and without embracing it as it works, or is truth . our club will test and find out for ourselves that it actually works..or not.

We have found that building on spine, creates less twist
We have a whole "demo" with facts, examples, data,
it is a VERY interesting..fact based demo.

Some feel that building on spine does not matter.
We teach to build on spine.

I dont argue the facts.

For what you asked.

we build our rods on spine. for better fish fighting.

for fly rods we build the other side . for casting, not fish fighting. for better casting;)

We are in the process of MORE testing spine/casting.
This testing has been going on for over a year. and we have involved over 20 builders. and testers
we are gathering FACTS.

This is what we do.
i am hoping to have this testing finished this year. so we can present the finding to our next years class of students.

hope this helped.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
no sorry.

our MONTHLY meetings are in MALVERN PA.
2 Great demos at each meeting, free beer, and always alot of sales stuff;)
and of course always little groups talking repairs, and other building stuff.

and the Rodbuilding classes are in essington pa on the delaware river.
 

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Paul,
Thanks so much for your prompt answer ....Yes, your answer DID make a lot of sense .....You mention that you build on spine , but when building a fly rod you will build the opposite to ensure better casting for fly fishing .. I am wondering if this would not be a good route to go when making popping rods , since so much rides on getting the popper/jig to the the fish and casting is really crucial ..... This may be beneficial also when using a Spinning setup , as the guides are on the bottom of the blank anyway, so a rod may not twist as much .....Please understand I am not questioning your theory on why you build the way you do , and I'm sure you have a lot of theory behind it ....I'm merely thinking out loud, and asking your opionion on my thoughts .... Thanks again for your expertise on this subject ...Sincerely, Jim
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
What you are asking with the popping rods is what we have been testing for over a year;)

for now, we are building to fight the fish.
and the casting has not really been a factor.

for different parts of the country it does seem to matter, somewhat.
but it seems to be more of a blank choice rather than a spine choice.
 

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I see !!..... So now with the event of the better rods for popping that have better casting features due to better/stronger/lighter materials and different builds in the blank ( softer tip etc ), my thoughts are pretty much a moot point .....GOOD !!!....I hope these new blanks are everything we want them to be ....BTW ...I never thought about reversing the spine on a jigging rod as the parabolic fish fighting side of the blank is of utmost importance and casting is not even relavent ...As you can see , I did give popping rods consideration ........Thanks again for sharing your knowledge on this subject ....Sincerely, Jim
 
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