Question about rods and guide sizes

Discussion in 'Jigging and Popping' started by Riptide, Oct 13, 2009.

  1. Riptide

    Riptide Banned

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    I know allot of guys use the OTI stuff and I've read all kinds of praise on a number of sites. I had never seen nor used any of their rods until recently. A couple days ago I had a charter that brought a 7'6" OTI 60-80# popping rod mated to a Stella 18000. Seemed like a very solid combo and seems to be how allot of guys would have theirs set up.

    I was very currious having spec'd out my own custom rod how the OTI would compare. My rod is physicly heavier, and rated higher 40-100 as opposed to 60-80, both have the same reel and the OTI is 6" longer. But none the less very similar in purpose.

    What I found was the OTI would cast a bit farther than mine (both had Streamline Wind-Ons and 80# braid and same lure.

    HOWEVER!!!!! About every dozen casts the OTI rod would wrap the bottom guide with the mainline. The line would half hitch and cut the cast to 30' or so. You could hear it when it did it every time.

    This is not the first time we have seen this issue on the boat. When we were using the Fin Nor OS 9500 reels we had the same issue on nearly EVERY rod. The Fin Nor has a HUGE diameter spool which seemed to be the cause.

    Because of the Fin Nor issues when we spec'd out my custom rod we went with a 50mm first guide. It's larger and heavier, but it "swallows" the loops or coils of line as the line comes off the reel. The larger the diameter of the reel spool the larger the loops going into the bottom guide. If the bottom guide is too small the loops go over the guide not through the guide causing this half hitch situation.

    Since going to the Stellas which have a smaller diameter we have not seen this even on the St Croix rods and a GUSA Predator custom we have (both with smaller than 50mm rear guides) But the OTI seemed to be plauged with this issue dispite having the same guide size as the St Croix and the GUSA. The only thing we could figure was the guide placement was causing it, since the SC, GUSA and OTI all had the bottom guides at different distances from the top of the reelwhich may influence the loop size as it impacts the first guide.

    Now being that this OTI / Stella is a seemingly popular combo, has anyone else had this happen? If so how did you deal with it? If not, why on this guys rod and reel?
     
  2. pametfisher

    pametfisher Senior Member

    1,387
    30
    I know allot of guys use the OTI stuff and I've read all kinds of praise on a number of sites. I had never seen nor used any of their rods until recently. A couple days ago I had a charter that brought a 7'6" OTI 60-80# popping rod mated to a Stella 18000. Seemed like a very solid combo and seems to be how allot of guys would have theirs set up.

    I was very currious having spec'd out my own custom rod how the OTI would compare. My rod is physicly heavier, and rated higher 40-100 as opposed to 60-80, both have the same reel and the OTI is 6" longer. But none the less very similar in purpose.

    What I found was the OTI would cast a bit farther than mine (both had Streamline Wind-Ons and 80# braid and same lure.

    HOWEVER!!!!! About every dozen casts the OTI rod would wrap the bottom guide with the mainline. The line would half hitch and cut the cast to 30' or so. You could hear it when it did it every time.

    This is not the first time we have seen this issue on the boat. When we were using the Fin Nor OS 9500 reels we had the same issue on nearly EVERY rod. The Fin Nor has a HUGE diameter spool which seemed to be the cause.

    Because of the Fin Nor issues when we spec'd out my custom rod we went with a 50mm first guide. It's larger and heavier, but it "swallows" the loops or coils of line as the line comes off the reel. The larger the diameter of the reel spool the larger the loops going into the bottom guide. If the bottom guide is too small the loops go over the guide not through the guide causing this half hitch situation.

    Since going to the Stellas which have a smaller diameter we have not seen this even on the St Croix rods and a GUSA Predator custom we have (both with smaller than 50mm rear guides) But the OTI seemed to be plauged with this issue dispite having the same guide size as the St Croix and the GUSA. The only thing we could figure was the guide placement was causing it, since the SC, GUSA and OTI all had the bottom guides at different distances from the top of the reelwhich may influence the loop size as it impacts the first guide.

    Now being that this OTI / Stella is a seemingly popular combo, has anyone else had this happen? If so how did you deal with it? If not, why on this guys rod and reel?

    I'm using a 40/60 Tuna Sniper (8' 6"), 100# Streamline and Stella 20K FA. Knock on wood, I've not had a single hang and have used it exclusively for casting. Perhaps a difference is that I'm running a very soft 60# uncoated JB hollow-weave braid. I believe that you're running PP which is (when new) stiffer feeling to my hands.
     

  3. saqa

    saqa Jonny TooBad

    1,406
    100
    Could be the line load as well, taking some line off might help. The line should just be under the bevel on the spool at full load
     
  4. BretABaker

    BretABaker Guest

    only time ive had that problem is when using long fluoro leaders. softer mono hasnt been an issue.
     
  5. paul708

    paul708 Site Sponsor

    4,184
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    i really havent heard about the problem with OTI production rods.

    but we have been testing different guide size and placement. with a few different blanks. some jig blanks and some shorter popping blanks. along with the OTI.
    and a few times we get line wrap.
    we have used PP 80# and had the problem.
    when using lighter line, not as much or at all.
    we did remove some line and it did help.
    we were using the stellas for testing.
    mostly 40 size guides. placed both ways. just to see if it made a differance.

    with the new 50 size alconite guide out. that may be a good option..
    and it will keep the price of the rods down also using those guides.
     
  6. Riptide

    Riptide Banned

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    I'll have to ask him what he loaded his reel with for line. I run Spiderwire Stealth, not sure what the sport had on his. I'd like to help him figure it out because it was a real PIA for him.
     
  7. paul708

    paul708 Site Sponsor

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    we had tuf-line XP
    PP
    OTI braid
    and one other brand..not sure what it was.
     
  8. d-a

    d-a Senior Member

    5,475
    206
    only time ive had that problem is when using long fluoro leaders. softer mono hasnt been an issue.

    Certain mono will do that too, Jinkai is one that I have had problems with. After switching over to Varivas I have had no more problems.

    Do you know what leader material is in the streamed line wind-ons and can you get it made with your leader of choice?


    d-a
     
  9. pametfisher

    pametfisher Senior Member

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    30
    Certain mono will do that too, Jinkai is one that I have had problems with. After switching over to Varivas I have had no more problems.

    Do you know what leader material is in the streamed line wind-ons and can you get it made with your leader of choice?


    d-a

    Right now I'm making Streamline leaders with Jinkai mono and Seaguar flouro. I've selected these for strength and stretch. Although Seaguar says its Premier is softer, in my hands (and when the Pressure Serve is applied), it is apparent that the Blue Label Seaguar is stretchier. (If someone wanted a custom run of leaders, they could e-mail us.)

    In my experience, Bret is correct. When hard, stiff fluoros are knotted to braid and wound around the spool and then cast aggressively, they can pick up some line which can catch the first guide. I believe Riptide's situation is different. I believe he's asking about rod differences and first guide sizes.
     
  10. paul708

    paul708 Site Sponsor

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    aggressive casts..
    a few times i thought the guide was going to get ripped off.
    OR
    the rod pulled from my hand if i wasnt holding tight.
    most of the wraps were braid wrapping the guide.
     
  11. BretABaker

    BretABaker Guest

    by me saying "ive had it happen with fluoro" i should specify that it doesn't normally happen a lot. unless your leader is over 12', there wont be too many wraps on the spool while casting with an 8'+ rod.
     
  12. SpecialK

    SpecialK Super Moderator

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    18
    I have had this happen with multiple rods and reels.
    But only when I was casting PE line.

    I have never had (knock on wood) a hang up when cast JB solid.

    I wonder if the PE line being more "flexible" had something to do with it. Also casting into the wind seems to make this happen more often.