Pliers amongst other things.

Discussion in 'Tackle and Rigging' started by SpecialK, Aug 24, 2009.

  1. SpecialK

    SpecialK Super Moderator

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    After seeing the last few posts about split ring pliers I really started wondering... Are these "Manufatures" just buying pre-designed product or are the overseas plants branding them differently without permission.
    I apologize in advance if this is a touchy subject...:)

    The Duel GT split ring pliers look exactly like the Braid split ring pliers.
    Duel
    [​IMG]

    Braid
    [​IMG]

    I also noticed that the HPA regular pliers. Look just like a pair of cheap shakespears I got for christmas...
    HPA
    [​IMG]

    Shakespear
    [​IMG]


    I noticed some other ones as well but I figured this would get my question across.
     
  2. hamptonsurf

    hamptonsurf Senior Member

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    I definitely think you are onto something....I have noticed that with quite a few things people have posted on here. Looks like some potential money for the patent attorneys lurking on here.
     

  3. bigscrnman

    bigscrnman Senior Member

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    The one thing that the Chinese do better than ANYONE in the world is copy! Those guys will knock off any item as long as they are gonna make a few cents a unit on it.
     
  4. hamptonsurf

    hamptonsurf Senior Member

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    absolutely, I have seen it first hand. The interesting aspect is when they start selling to the US.....
     
  5. SpecialK

    SpecialK Super Moderator

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    This is why I asked.
    I used to be a sales rep for a wakeboard and ski company.
    We found that another companies product was being produced and sold on ebay at around half of retail. It was traced back to the plant in china.

    This seems to be the same case accept re=branding. I just wonder if some of these products are marketed to business' like give away pens that have your name a logo on them.
     
  6. Jason4606

    Jason4606 Tuna Club member

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    This seems to be the same case accept re=branding. I just wonder if some of these products are marketed to business' like give away pens that have your name a logo on them.

    Exactly.

    The Braid's are a knock-off of the Duel design, and the quality when inspected is not the same. Not sure about the HPA's.

    Many cheap, easily reproduced, items are obviosuly just copies. (like a lot of jigs out there) But in many, many cases the items you're seeing aren't issues of copying or patent infringement. Many of the items I think you're eluding to are "brand labeled" items.

    Years ago the Chinese were just "knocking off" products. Now they are also Designing, Manufacturing and Selling TONS of the quality products we buy and use every day. And in many cases they will do so for anybody that wants to buy them...

    Sometimes these are exclusive agreements - An item is manufactured and branded under contract for only one company. In others they sell under the labels of many different brands. (And in some cases they even sell under their own brand, or no brand at all. ;))

    My point is there are good products out there that may not always carry an expensive label. You have to do your research, and NOT just confuse a name with originality or quality, and no name with junk.

    Jason
     
  7. hamptonsurf

    hamptonsurf Senior Member

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    good point. some knock offs are just as good as the real thing....but people often get hosed with inferior goods, which sucks. They do say, you get what you pay for. I have heard rumors of knock off power pro on ebay which is CRAP quality, like 80lb rating breaking at 25lbs.....try hunting down some dude in another country whn you get riped off...
     
  8. SpecialK

    SpecialK Super Moderator

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    Exactly.

    The Braid's are a knock-off of the Duel design, and the quality when inspected is not the same. Not sure about the HPA's.

    Many cheap, easily reproduced, items are obviosuly just copies. (like a lot of jigs out there) But in many, many cases the items you're seeing aren't issues of copying or patent infringement. Many of the items I think you're eluding to are "brand labeled" items.

    Years ago the Chinese were just "knocking off" products. Now they are also Designing, Manufacturing and Selling TONS of the quality products we buy and use every day. And in many cases they will do so for anybody that wants to buy them...

    Sometimes these are exclusive agreements - An item is manufactured and branded under contract for only one company. In others they sell under the labels of many different brands. (And in some cases they even sell under their own brand, or no brand at all. ;))

    My point is there are good products out there that may not always carry an expensive label. You have to do your research, and NOT just confuse a name with originality or quality, and no name with junk.

    Jason
    Good points. That answers my main question. With the wakeboard and skis. These manufacturing plants are only suppose to produce what is ordered by the "manufacture".

    But with some of these plier and other designs, it seems that thye may have designed the products.
    I have not seen a pair of duel pliers in person but I thought the braids were pretty good for 35 bucks.
    If they are not equals, it shows that they can sell them at different quality/price levels.
     
  9. Billiam

    Billiam Moderator

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    bigscrnman your stereotyping is a little offensive (partially hilarious & true), although I partially agree some (maybe a lot) practices of knocking off does occur in china, it doesn't mean ever chinese person doesn't design their own products. Being chinese myself just hate to hear someone stereotyping. But on the one hand the manufacturing sometimes charges way too much for certain items. And in other ways I can also see that these guys may be just trying to make back cost of designing this quality product. So, in my opinion Im on a neutral stand point.


    The one thing that the Chinese do better than ANYONE in the world is copy! Those guys will knock off any item as long as they are gonna make a few cents a unit on it.
     
  10. John_Madison CT

    John_Madison CT Senior Member

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    I'm pretty sure I've used some of that counterfeit PowerPro. It breaks well below spec. I've also heard of fake Costa del Mar sunglasses too.
     
  11. d-a

    d-a Senior Member

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    Good points. That answers my main question. With the wakeboard and skis. These manufacturing plants are only suppose to produce what is ordered by the "manufacture".

    But with some of these plier and other designs, it seems that thye may have designed the products.
    I have not seen a pair of duel pliers in person but I thought the braids were pretty good for 35 bucks.
    If they are not equals, it shows that they can sell them at different quality/price levels.

    Special K

    The braid pliers are a good deal for the money. The only thing the duels will do that the braids will not is cut PE lines well. I have both.

    As for some of the other pliers out there, most are made in the same manufacturing plant in China. There not knock off, just pliers that the plant makes for other vendors and if not contractually bound sell to whoever has the $.

    If you want some more insight into this Just Pm me.


    d-a
     
  12. cabosandinh

    cabosandinh Moderator

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    I've found pliers made in either Japan or Italy are
    all quality stuff. I have Jinkai crimper and Alutecnos
    general purpose plier, they have tight tolerance and
    have held up in saltwater environment

    Van Staal titanium is my favorite and I carry this
    on my belt while fishing

    Browning pliers claim to be Titanium coated but they
    rust after one outing
     
  13. Enoch

    Enoch Senior Member

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    Wow, cmon guys we have stripers online for this... :)
     
  14. bigscrnman

    bigscrnman Senior Member

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    bigscrnman your stereotyping is a little offensive (partially hilarious & true), although I partially agree some (maybe a lot) practices of knocking off does occur in china, it doesn't mean ever chinese person doesn't design their own products. Being chinese myself just hate to hear someone stereotyping. But on the one hand the manufacturing sometimes charges way too much for certain items. And in other ways I can also see that these guys may be just trying to make back cost of designing this quality product. So, in my opinion Im on a neutral stand point.

    Sorry if I offended! However, I have seen first hand how the business practices in china are run. I have an interest in a manufacturing company that has done business there for over 20years and the practice is pervasive in the business culture of the country. Not saying anything about the chinese people in general, who I find to be almost polar opposites of their govt/industry counterparts. I have even had one instance where there was a visit from the FBI related to an attempt to gain certain technology and information from our computer systems. Will not go any further than that!:rolleyes:
     
  15. YMMV

    YMMV Senior Member

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    Wow, cmon guys we have stripers online for this... :)

    lol so true.
     
  16. evets

    evets Junior member

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    I only use genuine imitations myself. Nothing worse than using a fake imitation :D :D
     
  17. chf1949

    chf1949 Senior Member

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    Help me out. Looking at the diagram in the first post, it appears both pliers mentioned are only rated to 100#. Is that the split ring 'max rating' they should be used with?

    If so, what is out there that will handle 200#, and up, split rings and also will open the heavier split rings enough to get a large hook attached (as members in other threads in these forums say several pliers will open the splits, but not enough to get hooks onto them... therefore basically useless if I am reading between the lines correctly?)

    Also, what ever happend to the DUO brand? Were they rated for the larger splits?

    thanks! ... butch