Need Help with Bent-Butt Standup Rod

Discussion in 'Tackle and Rigging' started by Uncle Russ, Feb 4, 2008.

  1. Uncle Russ

    Uncle Russ Senior Member

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    Now that I have filled the jigging rod gap in my tackle collection with an OTI 300 gram and (when it arrives), an OTI 600 gram, I think I have only one gap to fill, after which I hereby swear and affirm, I will never, ever, so long as I live, from the beginning of time until the end of the earth, again buy any offhore rod. :)

    A long time ago, TJ told me he had such a rod on sale, and I replied I wasn't ready for a bent-butt rod yet. However, having seen what a yellowfin--even the small ones--can do to bend MY butt, and having talked to several people who have used one, I am reconsidering. I would appreciate folks checking out my reasoning on this and critiquing my thinking:

    I have been thinking that I could take a short (say 4 1/2 to 5 foot) bent-butt rod, rated for 130 pound, plop my ATD50W with 130 pound JB hollow on it, at 50 -60 pounds of drag, put that sucker in the rod holder, so it describes about a 45 degree angle to the water, and either deep drop it or use it for chunking. Then, when a fish hits, I could push the lever to strike (or even to full) and just fish the rig in the rod-holder until such time as the fish takes off horizontal to the rail. Then, I could reduce the drag to a manageable amount and pick the rod up and put it in the belt to follow the fish down the rail. This would be, in effect, "using the rail" to the max.

    Question 1: Can anyone find a flaw in this thinking?

    Question 2: Am I correct in thinking that a very short, stiff rod like that, with a bent butt, would allow me to fish higher drag with less pain than say, my 6 foot 760H? (Keep in mind I am a bit older than Gman or MrBill or Gunsmoke and, although I am fairly strong for my age, I am not built like a tracked tank-retrieval vehicle.
    :)
    Question 3: Any recommendations on such a rod? TJ, I think drifter (Louis) told me that you use a rig like that????? I have looked at a "Deep Drop" rod Melton sells--6 feet, and another 4 1/2 footer in their catalog, both for standup. I want to keep it in the 400-600 dollar range.

    Thanks,

    Russ
     
  2. paul708

    paul708 Site Sponsor

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    i got the perfect rod for you;) .you can get some serious rod for that kinda $$:D ..that sounds like the way we do tuna out here. the rod on the left..cranked it right in
     

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  3. Sea Crappie

    Sea Crappie Senior Member

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    1. Well, there are a few potential flaws here. A true unlimited (or 130) blank is absurdly stiff. If you want to use it both in and out of the rod holder, as you suggest, it will be tough to properly load the rod with drag you can handle (when out of the holder). Now, that said, fighting fish from the rod holder can work great. Swordfishermen and rod/reel commercial Bluefin fishermen both use the technique to great effect. A couple of years ago, there was an article in Big Game Fishing Journal describing the BFT guys' technique (I'll look it up for you when I get home). The downside is that you will need a shallow 90deg swivel pin rod holder for this to work, and frankly, not many rec boats around here set their holders up this way. When you say deep dropping, do you mean regular bottom fishing, or 400ft + deep drops? If you intend to do the latter, an electric reel is a much better tool than a conventional reel.

    2. Technically, the shorter the rod and the MORE it bends, the easier it is on you. Basically, if it bends like a trevala and is all of 4.5ft long, the fulcrum point will be damn near at the foregrip, which minimizes the leverage the fish has. This does not come cost free of course. You now have a rod w/ no recovery and very little lifting power. If you want to get the appropriate trade off between the two, you'll need a custom rod builder to show you several blanks and configurations (along with your harness).

    3. For fishing purely from a rod holder, any custom rod builder can cut down an xxxh tree stump blank and pop it in a UBSC2 for a reasonable price. However, if you plan to fish very heavy drags (30lbs+) while standing up, it pays to try as many rods as possible.

    Cliff Notes Version: You're asking for a rod to do several wildly different things (how many times to you chunk for tuna w/ a leader that can handle 50lbs of drag?). If you succeed in getting something that can do all these things, you may find it does none of them well. The rod holder technique will also be limited by each boat's rodholder configuration.
     
  4. Minnow

    Minnow Administrator

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    Uncle Russ,

    I had one bend butt rod on last fishing trip with me. Its Calstar 755xxh cut down to 5'3" with an Aftco bend butt wrapped by Moon. I have used this rod on giant blue fin tuna and it works great.

    To be honest this rod is over kill for tuna under 150 lb, lets put it this way on last weekend trip I hooked into 80lb class yft and this rod was hardly bend in it.

    To fish this kind of rod from rod holder, I think you will need a swivel rocket launcher that can accommodate short bent butt rod. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
    If you have this set up, 60lb or more drag can be fish easily. JMO

    OTI is developing stand-up rods and chair rods; it will be in the market in the near future.
     
  5. Uncle Russ

    Uncle Russ Senior Member

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    Paul: I am most definitely interested, once I get some ideas from everyone and narrow down what I want the rod to do. Your rods really are great looking. (see below for some of my thinking.) What were the specs on the rod in the picture? You can PM me on that if you prefer.

    Crappie: Good points, all. and I am definitely guilty of always looking for one-size fits all. In reality, I think what I would be looking for would be the bottom-fishing function--mainly for AJ and Grouper. The deepest I ever fished was on the last Big E trip I was on--at a rig, we dropped down about 1,100 feet, and it was a bear reeling up. I baited up with about 4 pound filet of black fin and something got a hold of it and took me either into the rig or the bottom--the crew said it was an "eel". What the hell kind of eel that would have had to be, I don't want to know!

    In short, I don't think I want to use an electric setup--not for moral reasons but just because I don't want to screw around with it or pay for it. As for picking it up, I figure a person might have to do that since in my limited experience, I never caught or watched someone else catch a yellowfin without having to change positions on the boat--thus my thinking that if I used if for that, I would probably lower the drag before picking it up to run down the rail.

    But I think if I had to narrow it down to, as you point out, doing one thing and doing it well, I would probably want a rod for big AJ or Grouper--critters that really do need heavy drag to keep them from running into the rig--a rod that could handle heavy drag without breaking while sitting at an angle in the holder--kind of the equivalent of having the boat back away from the rig--something that ain't gonna happen on a party boat.

    TJ: Sounds like your rod is close to what I am looking for. I would be interested to know about the launcher issue from you or others.

    Thanks to all,

    Russ
     
  6. Bill Fisher

    Bill Fisher Senior Member

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    other ideas if someone wants to fish outta the rod holders and doesn't wanna $hell out the big buck$ for a bent butt......

    http://solomarine.com/images%2Fproducts%2Fcustompages%2F400%2D51%2Ebmp

    don't wanna $hell for a swivel adapter?.............

    drop a golf ball in the holder

    that's if the holders are strong enough, have a gimbal pin, or are otherwise closed off at the bottom, and are the same ID size as standard boat rod holders........... never been on those sorta boats to know

    i've one of those adapters for the zero degree shotgun rod holder on my boat to use lighter standup rods there on occassion....... works perfect and even brings the reel up a little higher for easy reeling from the holder when retrieving heavy-drag lures or teasers
     
  7. Uncle Russ

    Uncle Russ Senior Member

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    TJ: By the way, I got the 300 gram rod from Louis and, although I have not pulled on it yet, I love it. It's unlike any kind of rod I have ever used or played with. Looking forward to its big brother. I intend to use the ATD 12 on the 600 gram rod (might even chunk with it) and 665W 2-speed on the lighter rod. I went against Kil's advice and got the wide for jigging simply because I wanted the greater line capacity but I may wish I had listened to him when I start winding line on.

    Russ
     
  8. Uncle Russ

    Uncle Russ Senior Member

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    That looks like a trick solution, MrBill. With that and one of Kil's T-bar rail adapters, fishing could be a low-effor job! Is the device you pictured commercially available, or, as I suspect, would you have to fabricate it?

    Russ
     
  9. BretABaker

    BretABaker Guest

    I'm just not sure why you'd want to fight a fish from a rod holder....
     
  10. Bill Fisher

    Bill Fisher Senior Member

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    That looks like a trick solution, MrBill. With that and one of Kil's T-bar rail adapters, fishing could be a low-effor job! Is the device you pictured commercially available, or, as I suspect, would you have to fabricate it?

    Russ

    here... http://solomarine.com/sub-category.asp?CID=76 ..... and scroll down

    i also have one of those straight extensions for guests that wanna plop down in the fighting chair with a standup rig when it's rough seas.............

    it gets the reel out from between their knees if their long-legged
     
  11. Sea Crappie

    Sea Crappie Senior Member

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    Uncle Russ,

    I need to radically revise my response. I had no idea this was intended to be used on party boats.

    IMO, you're asking for tangles, bent guide frames and maybe a broken rod trying to fish from a rod holder on the Big E. The folks I mentioned who fish from a rod holder are all on small (relatively) manuverable boats and focus their efforts on one fish at a time.

    If you really want a stump puller and are tall enough to comfortably fish a bent butt over the rails of the Big E, I'd go w/ a narrow high drag reel like an Accurate 50 (not the wide you have) and a rod less than 5.5ft in length. I'd make sure and find a combo of rod, reel, plate and harness that together give you the most leverage. A wide plate like Smittys xxh and a good bucket harness will let you put the hammer to the fish and still have room to move around. To make the most out of this, though, I can't recommend enough that you have a custom rod maker knowledgable about stand up fit you to your gear.
     
  12. Bill Fisher

    Bill Fisher Senior Member

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    Whuttzza "Kil's T-bar rail adapter" ?
     
  13. Uncle Russ

    Uncle Russ Senior Member

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    Brett: My reason is that when I get tired of fighting those suckers (hasn't happened yet, I'll admit), it would be nice to just stand there with a cold coke in my hand and crank in low gear.

    Bill Fisher: Sorry I got the name wrong--close but no cigar. Thanks for the link. I especially like the "cluster holder." I was 25 years old before I realized that "cluster" wasn't just half a word.

    Russ
     
  14. Uncle Russ

    Uncle Russ Senior Member

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    Oh, what I am calling Kil's "t-bar adapter" (no doubt he will post a picture of it here) is a device Ksong came up with that he sticks in a rod holder. It comes up out of the holder and has a T-head welded to the top of it that runs parallel to the rail but some 1-2 feet above it. Thus he can use a rail rod to crank the fish up without having to get down on his knees as some do when fighting fish that way.

    I'm really kind of a lazy old fart--constantly looking for ways to make my life easier. I don't know how I got hooked into offshore fishing in the first place, but there have been 3 times I got a YFT in the 75 pound range hooked up. The first time was years ago with an Ugly Stick and a Penn 318 with 40 pound mono. I was always wondering with that rig out at the nearshore oil platforms why I couldn't stop a fish from cutting me off. Then when this YF hit, I might as well have been hooked into Al Gore driving one of his SUV s. The crewman cranked down on the drag before I got spooled and something exploded in the reel. That was really easy. Then I made the mistake of buying adequate equipment and I got the two fish to gaff pretty quickly, but thought I was going to die in the process. So that led to my trying to imagine what I would do if, after fighting 2 or 3 nice fish, I got a really big unit on the line--give up and hand the rod to a real man? Not in this lifetime. I don't fish so much because I enjoy it as I do because I want to make my friends feel bad. :)

    So I admire gadgets--especially useful ones--like the mountain rifle I had built in .300 Win Mag that is just under 7 pounds complete with scope, sling and fully loaded. It's much easier to carry than the 11 pounder I used to have and it feels so good when you stop actually shooting it! I look upon leaving the rod in the holder or using the rail the same way I do carrying that little gun up a mountain in Colorado.

    Russ
     
  15. BretABaker

    BretABaker Guest

    up north lots of guys have those - it makes dead sticking while chunking easier - and it's nice if you want to live line or float bait out.

    just strap yourself in, you'll be ok ;)