Magging my Avet

Discussion in 'Reels' started by Rottweiler22, Oct 19, 2007.

  1. Rottweiler22

    Rottweiler22 Member

    30
    0
    Gents and ladies, I have received a few questions about magging my avet LX. As simple as it seems, Gluing magnets in, but I have spent allot of time tinkering with it to get it slowed down enough. I just got back from my second fishing trip so it probably is a good time to summarize everything. I really like the reel and the low gear was great for the kids I was fishing with. I will leave out the progression of errors and just go with what works. Fortunately five-minute-epoxy, sticks well to the inside of the frame but when heated could be popped off with little force, and it didn't hurt the anodizing.

    I bought the several of each of the three smallest magnets from leevalley.cm. I didn't like the washers I got from leevalley and ended up not using them, but they were the right thickness at 3/32".
    Instead I took a large 1-1/2" washer with a 1/2" inside hole and cut it down. It had the same thickness at 3/32".
    I cut the washer at 12 o’clock and 4 to 4:30 to take out approx 1/3 of the circle. I used that as my attachment point for the magnets as they stick very well to the partial washer and do not slide around, as well as it gave me the flexibility to change magnets as many times as I wanted.
    I ground down the edges and the top of the arc but it fit pretty well and I probably didn't have too. It is slightly larger than three magnets placed side-by-side which is important to keep the magnets from not jumping around.
    Then I just tied on a lure (4 oz Roberts ranger) and went to the park with my screwdriver and a few magnets. Without one of the large magnets-(1/2"x1/8"). I could not feel any difference. It might be that the other magnets didn't sit close enough to the spool because they are slightly thinner at 1/10", but three medium magnets were not powerful enough.

    At the park, the ideal setup was one large and one medium magnet-(3/8"x1/10"). I was hitting around 85 yards and with very little line fluff. One large and two small magnets were barely too much, and maybe took off around 5 yards. Once I got on the boat casting in a confined area, into the breeze, changing lures, with blackfin busting everywhere, It would fur up (technical term for almost backlashing) about one out of four cast. Although this was not a bad thing as three of the fish hooked came as soon as I put it in gear from pulling out five or six loose loops of line. Bonus! Although when trying to replicate the technique I got nothing. Next trip I will put in one large magnet and two of the smallest magnets (1/4"x1/10") and see how that does. I bet that will be the trick. That awesome avet free spool of 40 seconds is way too fast to cast. Once I have placed the magnets in, I get about 8-10 seconds of free spool. It I could get my lure to hang in the air for 10 seconds I would be doing good, so this is about right.

    Just a couple of things to note.
    1 Clean everything very well with alcohol before epoxying the washer in.
    2 Try to check clearance heights of the washer and magnets before epoxying them in.
    3 The magnets are very strong and fun to play with. When lining the magnets up to put onto the washer you must flop polarities to get them to sit edge to edge. But that is good, as it increases the magnetic effect. (+,-,+) or( -,+,-)
    4 You want to place the magnets as close to the outside of the spool as possible to get the greatest effects.
    5 cover the magnets with grease or nail polish (black to match the reel of course) so nothing is rusted by the salt.

    The first photo shows (if I get it right) the avet in two pieces with the three screws. There is nothing else loose, to lose!
    View attachment 1961
    The second shows the frame with the clicker, and washer installed.
    View attachment 1962
    The third shows a close up of one large magnet and one medium magnet.
    View attachment 1963
    The fourth shows a close up of one large magnet and two small magnets.
    View attachment 1964
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Rottweiler22

    Rottweiler22 Member

    30
    0
    So for the fishing trip, I was deck-handing for a gentlemen, his thirteen year old son, and the son’s best friend who all live in New Orleans. We left Venice and headed out south pass. Hit a rig in 350’ looking for bait and Amberjack. Saw a couple of cobia, that I should have nailed with a live hardtail, but the sharks got it first. Then we headed to a rig in 600’ and within about 15 mins we got a wahoo on live bait within 10 feet of the gaft before he cut the mono (tuna fishing). Then we headed south along the first rip, and ran into acres of blackfin busting. I got about 3 or 4 tuna out of the school casting lures. Caught the Venice tuna slam with a blackfin, skipjack, and a baby yellowfin. Picked up one or two on a ranger, one on a pink diamond jig, and one on a silver diamond jig. Although I was putting my lure where it needed to be, I was not getting bit very good so I kept tying on smaller and smaller stuff, finally dropped the live hardtails on them and they still wanted nothing to do with it. The school finally sounded after a little less than an hour. So I asked him whether he wanted to go deeper for Yellowfin or shallower for AJ’s and snapper. We went into about 550’ and I dropped a jig down about 300’ working it up moderately fast, I hooked about a 25-30 pound blackfin on my avet. The son had a good time with the fish but the sharks got a chunk or two before he got it up. No big deal, we left figuring the sharks would do the same again. The next rig the13 y.o. best friend gets his biggest fish of his life, about a 75 pound amberjack. It put a hurting on him, but he did a great job, and with a little coaching didn’t even think about giving up the rod. Everybody was stoked. We hit a 25 pound almaco after that, and I got a little almaco on a knife jig. The next couple of rigs we put a few snapper in the box and headed back in. I got the biggest snapper on the knife jig, about a 26” fish.

    I will definitely have to build a jigging rod, Hopefully an OTI Blank. And get the whole metered colored line. Jigging is addictive and everybody on the boat was impressed at the catch rate of it. Just have to save up a little coin after my Christmas vacation to Puerto Vallarta, as I will have to get a new reel as well, probably a saltiest.

    The fifth photo shows the lures I got some fish on (besides the knife jig), Two 4 oz Diamond jigs I pour, in pink and silver tape, then a 3 oz chrome ranger, and a 4oz blue/white ranger with a little holo tape.
    View attachment 1966
    The next two photo’s are of the ranger and the couple are my diamond jigs in green silver and some glow tape. I will have to dress some hooks and use the diamond more for snapper next time.

    View attachment 1967
    View attachment 1968
    View attachment 1969
    View attachment 1970
     

    Attached Files:


  3. Ragman

    Ragman Moderator

    863
    3
    Very nice report Rott!

    Glad to see your success with jigging! It's amazing the size and variety of species you can readily catch while jigging.

    Just PM minnow for details on a blank.
     
  4. fishordie

    fishordie Senior Member

    362
    35
    Yo Rotti,

    I am a west coast guy who just loves to throw jigs and have for over 40 years. I have met a lot of folks who also felt the Avets and Accurates had too much free spool as they were backlashing way too much and of course way more than their previous conventionals.

    What I realized, when I watched their techniques, was they never learned to cast using a pendulum technique. Additionally, their starting points for both the tip of the rod (10 Oclock and 2 Oclock) and the placement or length of jig from the tip was incorrect. For the majority of these fishermen they used a short distance from the tip and just whipped the jig out there. Next, most of them never wet their lines before making their initial cast and finally most never used a finger and thumb to place additional pressure on the line going into the reel during the retrieve.

    With the pendulum cast you start with the rod tip around 2 Oclock, Let the jig drop about 3/4 of the way down the rod or more as you get better, and by creating the pendulum swing of the jig first towards the angler and then, as it begins it arc away for the angler, fire away by loading up the rod both using your arms, shoulders and moving the weight of your torso and upper body from your back leg to your front. The tip of the rod finishes at 10 Oclock. This gives the desired Flight trajectory under normal conditions. As the wind picks up or is directly in your face this will require a straighter trajectory such as ending at 9 Oclock however the pendulum to start the cast is the same. When done correctly you will not need to thumb down on the spool until the jig hits the water. This is where developing a "Feel" for the spool speed in relation to the amount of line the jig is taking out is again of utmost importance. If the cast is not so perfect this "Feel"
    and use of light thumb pressure will keep that backlash from happening.

    For those of us who use these free spinning reels on a regular basis, we LOVE the free spool but like any other high performance piece of equipment the room for error in technique is minimized and the penalty is high. Once the technique is established you can go for days or an entire trip without snarling or backlashing. I just got back from an 8 day, where I threw jigs for the full 6 days and some nights of fishing and never had a backlash. I might add the wind was blowing anywhere from 10 to 25 knots. My jig weights are anywhere from 75 grams to 200 grams.

    As far as wetting lines before casting this is imperative especially with wind but still mandatory in calm weather. As the boat is running to the spot I will let out my 100 Yd. mono top shots, without anything on the end, and rewind the line on again using my finger and thumb to assure I place line on the spool evenly and with at least some pressure.

    If we are at anchor I will either pour some water over the line in the reel or if we have enough depth I will drop down slowly and reel in again using my fingers. Additionally in all cases my fingers are placing the line on the reel evenly.

    All the above becomes even more of an issue when casting straight solid spectra attached to the jig. Except in Kelp, where I straight tie, I have determined for this fisherman 100 yds of mono, on top of my spectra, is just the way to go on these super free spool conventionals.

    To date, every person I have shown this technique to has removed any and all magnets from their reels and is just digging the silky smooth free spool.

    Just one persons opinion.

    Jamie
     
  5. Rottweiler22

    Rottweiler22 Member

    30
    0
    Jamie, it really just depends on what you are looking for. Avets have nice bearing and no cast control system. The LX has a large spool, and packed with line it has allot of weight and carries allot of momentum. During the cast as the lure starts to slow down usually at the top of the arc, as it starts fall back down towards the water, the spool with this momentum starts to over rotate, aka backlash. No big deal, ya just gotta thumb it a little bit! Or get that ‘feel’ as you said. But the more you have to thumb those loose coils down, the more distance you lose. No debating that.
    With bass fishing, I loosen up my reels all the way and ride my thumb just above the spool, I don't lose much distance and can put it within 6" of the bank.
    When I am surf casting, I spend time and tweak my reels out to achieve the maximum speed, with control, A combo of centrifugal weights (abu style cast control), different bearing oils (viscosities), and a few magnets, I tame my reel enough to where I do not put my thumb back onto the spool, except at landing, or the occasional wind gust. I still like them fast.
    And my casting is far from novice or poor. I surf fish in Hatteras, NC at least once a year with long rods 12'-6", and the modified-pendulum or off-the-ground casts depending on the beach. I also fish allot with lures, live baits and different length /actions of rods, I use 95% bait-casters and don’t have any problems. I normally take some breaks out of my reels. Plus I am hitting 85 yards on average, with an 8’ rod, 3-4oz topwater, 50 pound test and magnets, not too shabby. Yes, a 200 gram iron (nearly 7 oz hunk of lead) with a longer rod would not require nearly as much breaking.

    And I mean no offence, but if you can do a full pendulum cast in the front of a 26’ contender without hitting the t-top, Vhf antenna, outriggers, or the 13 year old beside you throwing a popper and the other one running around between yawl randomly, Bro, you are a great caster!! I had to use a shorter, more powerful swing and a small drop-down, because of the circumstances.
    If your logic truly worked, the tournament long distance casters would just take all their brakes out, get some ceramic bearings, rocket fuel, and see how smooth their casting stroke is. But that doesn’t work too well (I tried it, hell-a-va free spool). Maybe it’s just an east coast thing, but I will leave my magnets in for now. I am impressed how the long-range boat people cast a penn 4/0, or a small bait on a 50w. But that is not exactly what I am looking for.
     
  6. SpecialK

    SpecialK Super Moderator

    1,569
    18
    Avets have nice bearing and no cast control system.
    Can anyone tell me what the cast control Avet speaks of on there website is comprised of?
    I am looking at the LX and would like to know as much as I can about it before I buy it. I have no problem with modifying a little.
    Is this cast control something that was designed after this post?
     
  7. SpecialK

    SpecialK Super Moderator

    1,569
    18
  8. fishordie

    fishordie Senior Member

    362
    35
    Yo Rotti,

    No offense taken since I sometimes fish on my crazy buddies 21 Ft. Cabo with him and his 3 young kids. You never know what you might pick up with the pendulum swing before the jig ever hits the water....LOL. However,
    on his boat, my pendulum starts past the gunnels, over the side of the boat. You are correct in that I have to work around the cuddy cabin, rod holders, small children.... Okay maybe not the small children but I still have a good percentage of angles I can cast to.

    If you are throwing jigs on average of 85 yds, from a rolling boat, then you are doing better than 99% of the folks out there however it is readily apparent you are an experienced fisherman and have your own style and know what you want in a reel.

    I teach a variety of sports to kids of all ages and always start with the basics. Proper mechanics are the key for the overwhelming majority of participants be it basketball, tennis or casting. My own opinion is rather than detuning a rig to accommodate an angler who never learned to cast correctly I would rather teach them proper methods and see if that can correct the problems before the improper mechanics becomes embedded in their technique. Talking with owners and pro staff of these reel companies we are all scratching our heads at why so many folks are detuning these reels when what we really want is perfect free spool. Unfortunately the reality is too many anglers cannot handle the spin and therefore some companies are using cast control systems in order to sell more product to those who could otherwise not use their reels. These same companies spent fortunes on figuring out how to free spool those reels only to be told it was too much free spool. Oh well, such is life.

    The reason a proper pendulum cast works is the spool is basically traveling at the same speed throughout the arc. As soon as it is launched the jig is fighting with gravity and has a component traveling up and a component traveling forward but it is also removing line from the spool. although the jig slows some as it approaches its peak the smaller diameter spool has to speed up to allow the proper amount of line to come off. As the jig begins to sucumb to gravity it picks up speed and now has a component of down and out though not as much as when it was launched from the stick. None the less the spool is still travelling at the same or almost the same speed as it did at the onset of the cast as the spool diameter is still shrinking. This is one the reasons many folks are going to narrow reels as the spool diameter shrinks much faster making many anglers feel they can cast better in addition to being lighter in weight and easier to handle. Again, the proper trajectory for the given wind conditions is what makes this all work.

    Unlike my kids who practice their sports at school or at the park, most anglers only hone their skills when actually fishing. Like anything else practicing will make the angler better as long as they use correct technique. I almost never see a fisherman practicing casting at the park or lake and if they do they do not video tape themselves or have someone else critique their technique. Maybe I am to anal in my approach but fishing is a big part of my life and I want to be as good at it as I can be. Its an industry where you can continue to learn new things year after year. Who knows, maybe next year I will be putting magnets on my reels...LOL

    Anyway, I failed to mention your post was excellent and it is. Enjoy your days on the water.

    Jamie
     
  9. Rottweiler22

    Rottweiler22 Member

    30
    0
    Yo Rotti,

    I teach a variety of sports to kids of all ages and always start with the basics. Proper mechanics are the key for the overwhelming majority of participants be it basketball, tennis or casting. My own opinion is rather than detuning a rig to accommodate an angler who never learned to cast correctly I would rather teach them proper methods and see if that can correct the problems before the improper mechanics becomes embedded in their technique. Talking with owners and pro staff of these reel companies we are all scratching our heads at why so many folks are detuning these reels when what we really want is perfect free spool. Unfortunately the reality is too many anglers cannot handle the spin and therefore some companies are using cast control systems in order to sell more product to those who could otherwise not use their reels. These same companies spent fortunes on figuring out how to free spool those reels only to be told it was too much free spool. Oh well, such is life.

    I almost never see a fisherman practicing casting at the park or lake and if they do they do not video tape themselves or have someone else critique their technique. Maybe I am to anal in my approach but fishing is a big part of my life and I want to be as good at it as I can be. Its an industry where you can continue to learn new things year after year. Who knows, maybe next year I will be putting magnets on my reels...LOL

    Anyway, I failed to mention your post was excellent and it is. Enjoy your days on the water.

    Jamie

    Thanks Jamie, And you are completely right about propper technique and casting. It would be an absolute shame to slow the reel down too much to make up for impropper technique. And the pendulum cast gives you an extremely smooth stroke, which is essential in casting conventionals.

    If I am not mistaken, The real point of free spool is to let your live bait swim away from the party boats as easily as possible. In this case, getting the bait further away will catch you more fish.
    In lousiana we usually bait fish with bigger reels 30-50's and we just let line out and give it a little gas to get the small live baits, back into position. Usually we leave the rod in the holder with the clicker on and peel out between 30 and 50 pulls from the rod tip, In case something eats it along the way.
    With fishing from a private boat I am not exactly sure where free spool would come into play even when bait fishing.
    Since I am not soaking bait with my LX, I just want something I can cast without hurting my line from loose coils flying around or from a burnt thumb!
    With glueing the washer and not the magnets, I can take the magnets out in seconds and be back to the normal 40-second free-spool, If I needed it...???

    I should say that at the field I was hitting 85 yards consistantly, some 90. Realisticly from a bobbing boat I doubt I was getting 80 probably more like 70-75 yards. It still made me smile the first time I ripped a cast out there and the kid goes "Whoooo, I didn't even see it land."

    Jamie, you should see all the funny looks I get from the people in downtown atlanta when I walk out in the field and cast, and cast, and cast. The wierd stares are probably enough to keep most people inside. I thought about taking my surf rods to Peidmont park, but with all the dogs and rollerbladers, it could get hairy quick!!!
     
  10. Rottweiler22

    Rottweiler22 Member

    30
    0
    Can anyone tell me what the cast control Avet speaks of on there website is comprised of?
    I am looking at the LX and would like to know as much as I can about it before I buy it. I have no problem with modifying a little.
    Is this cast control something that was designed after this post?

    If you are familiar with lever-drag reels, most have indents for the strike drag setting, full drag setting and some have indents for a pre-strike drag setting as well.
    The cast control on Avet is another indent for a drag setting. If the drag preset is adjusted perfectly, this cast control indent will barely engage the drag and apply minimum resistance, still allowing a decent cast. The down side is, once you adjust the drag preset so this Cast control indent is functional, you have a predetermined strike / full drag setting.

    Since this is the case, most people disregard the cast control indent and adjust the drag preset for a certain number at strike or full depending on the size of line.
    I have one of the latest run LX with the silent anti-reverse and the latest drag cam.
    For me the Cast control setting was fairly functional, with a strike at 13 and full at 19 pounds. About what I would set for 50 pound test anyways.

    I didn’t just rely on the indent for the reason I stated, plus the constant friction hurt my distance. I could really feel that little bit of resistance at the end of the cast robbing my distance. The magnets don’t involve friction, and the magnetic force is greater the faster the spool spins. So the magnets act sort of like a variable braking system, the faster it spins (start of backlash) the more the magnets kick-in. Very similar to the centrifuge brakes on most baitcasters.

    I don’t know whether the magnets are actually attracted to the spinning aluminum or just the very small amount ferrites (iron impurities) within the spool. The first would cause more variable braking, but I had a pilot swear up and down no matter how fast pure aluminum spins it will not inherit magnetic properties, which goes against the ‘word’ on the forums, but either way the faster the ferrites spin the more they are effected by the magnets ;)
    I am not a scientist, and I have no way of testing the amount of ferrites in my spool, but I know it makes for a smooth long spinning cast.

    I was sort of shocked at the decrease in free spool, expecting very little if any change at slow speed; more of a variable effect. But in no way did it 'kill' my free spool. It will still spin for about 10 seconds and give you a nasty backlash if you hit a tree limb, antenna, or one of those 13 year olds. (great kids actually) Plus until I learn how I can use that super free spool, 40-second free-spools are just for personal entertainment in-between fishing trips.
     
  11. SpecialK

    SpecialK Super Moderator

    1,569
    18
    Well I have got to tell you!!!
    After lots of consideration on what type of reel to go with, I picked the Avet JX 6/3.
    I read this post and talked to a few people about advantages disadvantages of magging the reel.
    I tried for a few days to cast the reel without magnets. I could get a very decent 40-50 yard cast after a few practices.

    I went ahead and ordered magnets from Leevalley and with ROTT's suggestion I used an ordinary washer instead of the ones from leevalley.
    After a day of messing with positioning and magnet size, I got the combo that I liked. The correct amount of resistanceis up to the person casting. I found after having enough to not need to thumb at all that I could get mroe distance by using less magnet and a little thumb. I have found a good combination of magnets for myself and am having a hard time believing the distance I am casting this combo.
    This, in all reality, doubled my casting distance! I had a 100' tape on hand and measured out a little over 100 yards 4 times in a row. The shortest cast was around 75 yards. With many other casts found somewhere in the middle.

    I can say that my Okuma E85 spinning reel on a 7.5' rod will not touch this new Avet on a 7' rod. It simply casts too smoothly.
    I can't wait to let some others try this combo and let me know what they think!!!
     
  12. Rottweiler22

    Rottweiler22 Member

    30
    0
    I am glad your expectations were met. I was just answering a couple of people’s questions and giving my perspective on a subject that was already covered in detail. I never really meant for someone to go out and buy a new reel /rod setup. But at this point I bet you are pretty tickled with that little AVET. Just wait until you use low gear on a 100 pound fish!!
     
  13. SpecialK

    SpecialK Super Moderator

    1,569
    18
    I never really meant for someone to go out and buy a new reel /rod setup. But at this point I bet you are pretty tickled with that little AVET.
    Well the Avet was already really high on my list of possibles for a new reel. But tickled is a severe understatement. I had grown a little concerned with being able to cast from a rocking boat at night. I have had trouble doing this with a conventional in the past when trying to get distance.
    I got out on Lake Travis last night and practiced... It was nothing. Much better than anything I have ever used before!
    I am very happy to have been pointed to your post by a few others!!!