Leaders for Poppers

Discussion in 'Tackle and Rigging' started by outofcontrol, Apr 23, 2008.

  1. outofcontrol

    outofcontrol Junior member

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    I new to the popper game; so to my question is all this twisted leader stuff really nessary for throwing poppers in the Gulf. I have researched this topic on this forum and others and it seems to me the twisted leaders are overkill ( not trying to offend anyone ) for a 1000-3000 feet of water. I know good and well, I will not be able to rig one on the boat. If you are running a TL are the twists down to the real to grab with your finger for casting.

    Does any one fish with say 65#braid to 10 feet or so of 80# mono or fluro leader with sucess?
     
  2. Uncle Russ

    Uncle Russ Senior Member

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    I am no expert, but, based on advice I have received on this board, I have had good success in testing by tying a 40 turn Bimini in solid braid and attaching 3 feet of 60 or 80 pound fluorocarbon via a standard Albright knot. I know others here use others.

    Russ
     

  3. Ragman

    Ragman Moderator

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    Great question OOC!

    I read of Hatidua or Fishordie -I believe- on Angler's Pro Shop forum explaining with pictures the advantages of a twisted leader for poppers.

    You should search it out and at least try it. I lost the link or I would have built one to try. The explanations seemed it could be the best connection for casting poppers to tuna, and toothy, shallow reef fish with teeth.
     
  4. Sea Crappie

    Sea Crappie Senior Member

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    I've never used a twisted leader (they do look pretty cool though). Jinkai or Varivas 80 to 130lb leader material is all I use for YFT and have absolutely no problem.

    I choose these brands because the mono is supple but very strong and abrasion resistant. The softness is necessary to use a mid-knot or P-R knot to attach your spectra main line.

    My leaders are typically long enough to get 3 wraps around the reel spool plus enough length to have the lure 3ft or so from the tip of the rod. I've never had a serious problem with abrasion during a normal YFT fight, just accumulated wear from many fish, especially if they're tail wrapped or the leader ends up between the deck and the fish after boating them. If the leader shows abrasion, I cut off and retie. Normally before a trip I precut and bag 15ft sections of leader, which makes it easy on the boat.

    I normally end my leader w/ a heavy duty split ring / solid ring combo so I can switch lures w/o retying.

    I'm not a fan of the short leader / swivel connection, but plenty of folks are and it seems to work for them.
     
  5. Uncle Russ

    Uncle Russ Senior Member

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    SeaCrappie: You don't lose any casting distance with that setup, due to the heavier mono and the knot passing through the guides?

    Russ
     
  6. Sea Crappie

    Sea Crappie Senior Member

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    Russ,

    If I lose any distance I haven't noticed. Good casting form has much more of an impact on your rod's performance than leader length. Of course if you're casting super light lures, I'd scale the leader weight down a bit.

    The knot doesn't pose an issue as I only use the mid-knot or p-r knot, both of which lie flush w/ the leader and do not impede casting in any way. I would not use this system without these knots. They've never broken on me. After lots of home testing w/ a scale, it seems to me that you can't expect better than 75% strength w/ a spectra bimini.

    I like this system for many reasons, the most important being that:

    1. I can cast with mono on my finger much better than w/ spectra. Plus there are only 2 connections, 1 line to leader and 1 leader to solid ring.

    2. I've seen many tail wrapped tuna, and I have very little faith in the abrasion resistance of spectra (at least compared to 130lb jinkai).

    3. I think it acts as a shock absorber. I've had very few pulled hooks compared to the average it seems, even fishing heavy drag.
     
  7. outofcontrol

    outofcontrol Junior member

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    Thanks to all for the info. This is the first time that I have ever had to take casting into consideration while fishing offshore. Is the choice of the split ring or solid ring just a personal preference?
     
  8. txseadog

    txseadog Moderator

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    I also use TLs but have scaled down to 50# TBG. I'm a big fan of having a couple wraps on mono on the spool when casting just for the comfort factor alone. I have found that I get the most distance w/ straight spectra but can only cast for a short time at full force or my accuracy suffers.

    I also have good success with topshots that only have 8-9' of exposed mono. The topshot leaders also let me quickly switch to a jig if needed without the fear of missing strikes from double mono on the jig.
     
  9. jig

    jig Senior Member

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    I do straight 65# spectra to about 2ft of 60# flouro with a reverse albright (aka worm knot). I leave the knot outside the tip for casting. Zero failures to date. Outside of the casting comfort issues, you don't need a long leader for topwaters.

    I tried the mid knot on 60# flouro and it just would not hold. The flouro is too hard for the spectra to bite into and grip. it did work fine on 60# mono though.
     
  10. hatidua

    hatidua Senior Member

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    Great question OOC!
    I read of Hatidua or Fishordie -I believe- on Angler's Pro Shop forum explaining with pictures the advantages of a twisted leader for poppers.

    Definitely wasn't me - I'm not a fan of fancy leaders or knots. I know how to tie them but they impress me as a solution to a nonexistent problem. I double my braided line via a spider-hitch or bimini (have not seen an advantage to one over the other) and then connect my leader of about 4' of fluorocarbon to that doubled line via a uni-to-uni.

    If, and when, that setup ever fails, I'll switch to something else. Until that day, I'm sticking with simple/quick/easy ;)
     
  11. Uncle Russ

    Uncle Russ Senior Member

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    I'm not sure why--but I am the most knot-challenged person on earth, but for some reason, learned to tie biminis well and virtually in my sleep.

    Then I found out that Jerry Brown Industries recommends 7-turn surgeons loops for their hollow line (as opposed to the Bimini--and if and only if you decide not to use a braided loop--which is of course superior.) So I got to tying them and trying them in solid JB and in YKG Jigman as well. I say "trying" as opposed to "testing" because I have not kept any records yet. But the bottom line is that they seem to work just as well as the biminis. The other thing is that there seems to be no way to screw them up--the line draws down into a beautiful series of parallel twists and goes through guides better than the bimini.

    Also, I have tried all of the exotic knots I have seen described and frankly just cannot tie them well. I even tie the Albright better than the reverse Albright--just the opposite of the way I hear it is with others.

    Russ
     
  12. Fishhead56

    Fishhead56 Senior Member

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    If, and when, that setup ever fails, I'll switch to something else. Until that day, I'm sticking with simple/quick/easy .
    ..................................................................................................

    I agree with Hatidua. I'm a KISS guy, Keep it Simple Sxxxxd,
    Know a bimini, Cats Paw. Uni, Uni-Uni, surgen, figure 8, improved clinch, Hay wire ect.. 2 knots, 4 knots 6 knots. Know or learn a few then go fish. The same with crimping or other tackle rigging.

    I like to keep my knots either out side the eye when casting. "Short leader". or inside the reel when casting. "Long top shot".

    Kiss Guy:eek:
     
  13. jt2hunt

    jt2hunt Senior Member

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    i can vouch for crappie's casting distance.

    vance and myself use a short leader and swivel, both ways catch fish.
     
  14. wacker

    wacker Senior Member

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    i can vouch for crappie's casting distance.

    vance and myself use a short leader and swivel, both ways catch fish.

    Well, It's good to know you remember what a fish is.
     
  15. MrBill

    MrBill Senior Member

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    I'm just getting in from a party. It's fiesta here is SA. Drinking is allowed and I enjoy it. Let me just say one thing. If casting with a spinner, an alberto knot does the trick. Just make sure you loop the heavier line and do the twist with the lighter line which is normally the braid. If you loop the spectra and do the wraps with the mono or flouro, your lure is history.


    I like at least 15 to 20 feet of mono tied off to the spectra. Flouro is not important. Just use Big Game or Momoi Diamond as a topshot when casting poppers or swimmers. There's nothing wrong with a uni to uni. If you have enough reels, just rig a few up ahead of time. This might sound weird, but I really like to have at least two back up reels for every rod I take with me.

    I been know to take over 30 reels on a single trip. I've been on a boat where four of us had over 100 reels on board.:eek: It never fails if you don't have enough, you will run out and have to re-spool a from different a few half broken off ones to get a full spooled reel. What I am trying to say is if the boat is big enough and has plenty of space, bring on the equipment. If you are in a smaller boat, bring plenty of extra line.

    I'm going to bed as I have a parade and lots of drinking to do Friday. No work, just a little liver punishment. It's life great.:) If what ever I typed above doesn't make sense, then so be it. :D
     
  16. hatidua

    hatidua Senior Member

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    I'm going to bed as I have a parade and lots of drinking to do Friday.

    MrBill, we applaud your efforts with the festivities and wish you well with all the drinking you have to do :D
     
  17. Bret

    Bret Senior Member

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    MrBill, we applaud your efforts with the festivities and wish you well with all the drinking you have to do :D

    Man, I miss Fiesta.......:D
     
  18. MrBill

    MrBill Senior Member

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    MrBill, we applaud your efforts with the festivities and wish you well with all the drinking you have to do :D

    It's tough. I'm not a big beer drinker, but today I'll drink at least 30 to 40 before switching to the good stuff at 5pm.:D :D
     
  19. SkeeterRonnie

    SkeeterRonnie Senior Member

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    keep it simple... i keep it real simple... I use about 12-18" of 80# flouro and crimp the ends because I dont trust my own knots :) I keep about 3-4 ready to go and replace the leader, or switch lures after each big fish. one end has the lure crimped on, and the other has a SPRO 230# powerswivel crimped on.. all I do it tie a polomar knot to the swivel with my 65# braided line.


    oh yeah... you need some gloves to cast with spectra on your fingers... underarmor live release gloves are the shiznitz!! them old pharts cant do it, cause thier fingers are too soft from all that hard work in the office :) hehehehe :) they like mono :) :) :) (j.kiddin old pharts!)
     
  20. SkeeterRonnie

    SkeeterRonnie Senior Member

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    It's tough. I'm not a big beer drinker, but today I'll drink at least 30 to 40 before switching to the good stuff at 5pm.:D :D

    note to self: "Self-dont ever be a fool and try to hang with Mr Bill when it comes to drinkin!"