JB Hollow Core Casting Test

Discussion in 'Tackle and Rigging' started by pametfisher, Apr 2, 2009.

  1. pametfisher

    pametfisher Senior Member

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    There have been a lot of reports about the performance of Jerry Brown hollow core line on spinning reels. Although there are many people who use hollow core on spinning reels, for some, the jury is still out. The concerns I'd read about centered around: line twist (wind knots), casting distance, and line capacity.

    There are performance benefits of hollow core: no knots and therefore greater strength, and smoother casting through the guides; and easier repair by line to line splicing. So I decided to load up a couple spools and take the risks of the problems others had mentioned.

    JB hollow core line with an actual breaking strength above 102 pounds (this would be equivalent to PE8) was loaded onto the Stella 20000 spools by BHP Tackle under 10 pounds of tension. Two spools were loaded, each spool took 450 yards. The spools are deliberately very full, see photo.

    Since the spools were loaded by a rotating machine, I used the Hybrid method described in Spooling for Minimum Twist to reset the top 100 yards.

    Yesterday was a windy day (what better day to test for "Wind" Knots) and I spent an hour casting these spools with 2 oz., 3 oz. and 4oz. weights. The rods were fairly stiff 7 footers (St. Croix SWS70MHF). I have previously tested casting distance for this rod with 30# Cabela Ripcord (don't ask why I ever used that, it came free on another reel) and usually got 80 to 85 yards with 4 oz.

    "Wind" Knots
    The spooling technique used resulted in smooth casting with no twists, threats of twists, or curly-Qs about to become "wind" knots. I am now confident that correct spooling of any line keeps the twists out and hence the dreaded "wind" knots. There are many things that can introduce twists to any line but in tuna fishing, hundreds of yards pulled off spinning reels against the drag with the bail closed, and then wound back on are a big culprit. Therefore I plan to reset the line after each trip where I've fought (or hopefully caught) fish.

    Casting distance (measure by grid on the field)
    2 oz.: 65 into the wind, 75 with
    3 oz.: 70 - 80
    4 oz.: 75 - 85

    Research
    The Handbook of Fibre Rope Technology (borrowed) says that hollow core Spectra weave, when loaded, requires no more volume than solid braided. It also states that although 16 carrier and above (number of fibers woven) can flatten, 12 carrier and below does not. I have chosen one of the JB 12 carrier hollow braids.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. kidflex

    kidflex Senior Member

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    you would think you would get alot more distance with the 30# ripcord. that 80# hollow jb must cast well.

    i havent tried hollow core line but have read that many dont like using it for jigging because the line catches current more and slows the fall of the jig. any thoughts on this?
     

  3. pametfisher

    pametfisher Senior Member

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    you would think you would get alot more distance with the 30# ripcord. that 80# hollow jb must cast well.

    i havent tried hollow core line but have read that many dont like using it for jigging because the line catches current more and slows the fall of the jig. any thoughts on this?

    I believe that with all fishing line there is a lot of marketing going on. Whether mono, fluoro, or spectra ... it's diameter, strength, stretch, etc. ... are all related to how much material they use in making the line.

    Therefore, if you could make an exact apples to apples comparison you would find the same performance when dropping a jig. In fact, this hollow core I used is labeled 60# but clearly tests to over 100# and uses the same amount of space on the spool as PE8 ... go figure.
     
  4. d-a

    d-a Senior Member

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    Pamet

    As a control, did you cast with the same rods, and same size reels on the same day? There was a little confusion in your above post about that.

    Yesterday was a windy day (what better day to test for "Wind" Knots) and I spent an hour casting these spools with 2 oz., 3 oz. and 4oz. weights. The rods were fairly stiff 7 footers (St. Croix SWS70MHF). I have previously tested casting distance for this rod with 30# Cabela Ripcord (don't ask why I ever used that, it came free on another reel) and usually got 80 to 85 yards with 4 oz.

    d-a
     
  5. rtran

    rtran Senior Member

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    that is alot of line on the stella. I usually never fill it that full
     
  6. John_Madison CT

    John_Madison CT Senior Member

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    Great thread Pametfisher !! You really do your research and testing.
     
  7. pametfisher

    pametfisher Senior Member

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    that is alot of line on the stella. I usually never fill it that full

    The spool came back from Basil fuller than I had expected. Since I know that is a worst case situation for so-called "wind" (twist) knots, I'm leaving it that way. It cast great.
     
  8. pametfisher

    pametfisher Senior Member

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    Pamet

    As a control, did you cast with the same rods, and same size reels on the same day? There was a little confusion in your above post about that.



    d-a

    Fair questions. The rods were the same. St. Croix SWS70MHF, 7 foot, Medium Heavy, Fast Action--kind of stiff rods. The caster was the same, me. The temperatures were colder for the JB test, meaning the air was denser, harder to get distance, although maybe I'm more energetic in colder air.

    In both cases I did upwind and downwind tests and averaged them. The JB reels were Stellas with a full spool diameter of 2.8 inches. The 30# tests were Penn 950 ssm reels, full spool diameter of 2.75 inches.

    In truth, I think I'm the biggest variable in the equation. I just can't seem to get any configuration of these stiff 7 foot rods (2 oz., 3 oz., 4 oz. weights) to cast 100 yards.

    (I also tried casting these configurations with long 80# mono leaders 25' and saw a significant fall off in distance. There was a lot of line slap to the rod.)
     
  9. jerrybarnes13

    jerrybarnes13 Member

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    I tried to log on to that link spooling for min. Twist . would not work. Where can I find this elsewhere ?
     
  10. pametfisher

    pametfisher Senior Member

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  11. DenisB

    DenisB Senior Member

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    Situation:
    spinning reels put twist in the line as it is spooled onto the reel , when it is cast the twist reverses & you have straight line in the water.
    stored twist comes from a fish pulling line from the spool where it does not generate reverse twist as in a cast & then twist is added spooling that line back on............as others have indicated.
    Alvey reels twist on the cast & wind back on as a centerpin reel, every cast adds twist. Swivels help & so does line management on retrieves.

    Holding the line tightly between finger & thrumb with little tension on the line ( no fish, small lure or line run out behind the boat with no lure while travelling) , to flatten the line between finger & thumb takes out 90% of stored twist. It runs it back to the swivel ( or loose tag end ) and the only twist remaining is between the reel & the lure at the rod tip.

    For an Alvey this is a once a day thing at the end of a session, noting that Alveys generate more twist in a session than fighting an occasional big fish & losing line to it off the drag with a spinner.
    Once a day will sort out spinning reel twist & once every couple of sessions should be manageable.

    To completely straighten twisted braid onshore I use a reversible portable drill with a hookeye in the chuck & run out the offending length & holding it under tension with the rod I crank up the drill to take the twist out.
    Its actually quite easy to see the braid weave pattern straighten out as the drill takes the twist out.

    Only a dumb Aussie using braid on an Alvey needed to sort out a shorebased de-twisting arrangement..........He He..........its actually quite simple.

    Only the same dumb Aussie would discover that you can't use fireline on an Alvey for very long before destroying the fireline by de-laminating it.
    Fireline is twisted , fireline is twisted in the direction that suits the twist generated on a spinner..............Alveys store twist in the opposite direction & remove the manufactured twist in the fireline de-laminating the bonded threads.............He He..............discovered the hard way.
    The hookeye in a reversing drill will do the job nicely whether you have a spinner or an alvey ............ think the drill rotating in forward suits spinners.
     
  12. saqa

    saqa Jonny TooBad

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    Hey mate
    My 475 luderick special has been running the same spool of bionic since bionic came out. I have found that at least with this good braid any twist in the line doesnt cause problems. I use this same outfit for light surf breaming as well so it gets to cast a fair bit in sidecast mode. I do use bionic 50 to get a bit of diameter back for line management reasons and one crane swivel to terminate the line for surf casting. The really tight and waxy feel of the bionic 50 is easy on the wet fingers as well and bream, salmon and tailor dont pull hard enough to cause any further probs. If I did ever hook something much bigger on this outfit then I do have an owner finger stall that I always wear when surf fishing
     
  13. saqa

    saqa Jonny TooBad

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    Roger
    I tested the 80lb OTI sniper with 12' of 200lb leader and 100g casting weight to produce consistent 80m plus with a high quality japanese 80lb 8 carrier braid. I have now spooled the maverick up with the 100lb JB hollow and will let you know how it compares as soon as I get a chance to cast it
     
  14. DenisB

    DenisB Senior Member

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    Ahh yes the Alvey 475 luderick reels.
    have a couple of those and a fancy super lightweight centrepin reel for luderick
    ( gotta be careful here not to use the strine name for luderick for political correctness ........ no disrespect intended in some of the strine language, but we are taking a flogging internationally with some of strine being taken out of context.......... He He).

    Have to say I went away from spectra on my luderick gear & use hollow cored floating mono for that job ( 10#).

    I use Bionic's brother in 20# on my floating garfish rigs for casting distance .
    No finger stall, just a carefully placed open runner to manage finger pressure on the retrieve.
    Similarly I use braid on my Alvey 650E and 750E for casting distance.
    ( 30# & 50# respectively ).
    The majority of my knockabout Alvey rigs I have at my cabin in RNP are loaded with mono.
     
  15. Dave Nowlin

    Dave Nowlin Senior Member

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    I guess I'm just dumb as I started years ago doing a practice I continue to this day. I take a fully spooled spinning reel and tie a high quality ball bearing swivel to the line with a snap attached. Then I attach and cast a pyramid sinker as far as I can. I then walk backwards until the spool is almost empty and begin reeling in line under tension applied between the index finger and thumb of the non-cranking hand. I find it better to walk toward the sinker as I take up line to keep the tension as constant as possible. This method has worked pretty well for me since the mid-seventies. It doesn't require a drill or any fancy tools and works very well. I suppose it might be referred to as the K.I.S.S. principle applied to a common problem.
     
  16. saqa

    saqa Jonny TooBad

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    Ahh yes the Alvey 475 luderick reels.
    have a couple of those and a fancy super lightweight centrepin reel for luderick
    ( gotta be careful here not to use the strine name for luderick for political correctness ........ no disrespect intended in some of the strine language, but we are taking a flogging internationally with some of strine being taken out of context.......... He He).

    Have to say I went away from spectra on my luderick gear & use hollow cored floating mono for that job ( 10#).

    I use Bionic's brother in 20# on my floating garfish rigs for casting distance .
    No finger stall, just a carefully placed open runner to manage finger pressure on the retrieve.
    Similarly I use braid on my Alvey 650E and 750E for casting distance.
    ( 30# & 50# respectively ).
    The majority of my knockabout Alvey rigs I have at my cabin in RNP are loaded with mono.

    Not wrong there mate, its a definate flogging but the weird thing is that the fellas doing most of the complaining are one of the most racist buggers on the planet, I know because I am kinda related to em.

    Looks like we two are the only members of 'nutjobs with braid on their alvery' club. If you posted that on a local forum, you would be tarred and feathered then run outa town