I need to VENT for a minuite

Discussion in 'HUNTING' started by Boonebird, Jun 5, 2008.

  1. Boonebird

    Boonebird Member

    62
    1
    My family ownes the largest public shooting range in new england. It has been in operations since the 40's. For the first time in our history we had to shut down because one claims that bullets are traveling 1.5+ miles over a mountain and are striking acouple houses. The connecticut dep has asked us to shut down. We have. We spent money hiring a lawyer and flying specialist up from florida to hear one thing. This is one of the safest ranges I have ever seen. We are currantly spending money to build up the berm that bullets are fired into. Im not sure what else is being done. We have been praying that the state will let us reopen the range once we are finished making it as safe as we can. Its funny that we have gone threw this twice. The first time it was all one caliber that was found embeded in shingles. 11 rounds of a 7.62 where found in a swimming pool from 1.5+ miles away they where shot from. Funny no cars where hit just the pool. Yea Im buying that one not. Its funny the ring leader behind this has his own 200 yard range on the property. its total bs. WTNH.com, Connecticut News and Weather - Home has video clips and stuff. Thanks for letting me vent.
     
  2. Bret

    Bret Senior Member

    1,699
    14
    Sorry to hear about that.. it seems that someone is always trying to get the the way of peoples hobbies.. I hope you get it straightend out..
     

  3. Uncle Russ

    Uncle Russ Senior Member

    1,105
    3
    I don't know the first thing about Connecticut law, and would not presume to give you direct advice, but assuming you are not violating any kind of (1) specific statue, (2) deed restrictions or (3) homeowner's bylaws, I would think that to get you to cease and desist, someone would have to slap you with a restraining order--no doubt they could get a temporary order for 10 or so days ex parte (without your participation), then there would be a hearing in which they would have at least some burden of proof to show that your range constitutes a danger and have you permanently shut down. That may be the hearing you had the guy flown in for. Has a judge entered a ruling against you or is your shutdown still voluntary pending reconstruction of the berms?

    Don't need to tell you you face two tough political situations--first you live in the heart of anti-gun sentiment, and second, any judge in the area is going to go overboard protecting the citizenry--or at least appearing to do so.

    Russ
     
  4. thenewkid

    thenewkid Senior Member

    409
    2
    OMG now thats to funny!!! your talking about blue trail i presume....
    i live in durham. what a coincidence. Curious how did you find the site and you wouldnt happen to know dave lyman do you ?
     
  5. VaRandy

    VaRandy Site Sponsor

    1,506
    96
    I happen to be a long range shooting expert by any standard, so this hits close to home.

    For someone to hit the pool from 1.5 miles away on purpose, the angle would have to be very steep (as in purpose) and the wind either none at all or perfectly consistent to allow that many to fall into a small pool.

    The low Ballistic coefficient of a .308 means they go subsonic at about 900 yds on average (depends on temperature, elevation, etc. At that time they begin to yaw and tumble and where they end up is undeterminable, but definitely not clustering as the pool projectiles.

    This is absolute Bullshit and should be fought. The bullets will no doubt have the same rifleing on all of them in the pool and probably trace directly back to your 200 yd guy you mentioned.

    Since there are few men left in your state, you will not have any help like previously mentioned.

    A club faced with this problem can normally encase the shooting positions by shooting withing a large drainpipe or sort that would not allow the elevation to leave your range.
    This would not stop a nutcase from shooting up in the air from your range but if the range is not allowed to be used by individuals without a range officer or at least an objective witness, this is worth a lot. In short, the club has made it impossible to accidentally launch an errant high shot.

    Hope this helps. Let me know how I can help.
     
  6. Fishhead56

    Fishhead56 Senior Member

    1,088
    1
    Don't the plates on the back of the cars in CT say "Constitution Sate "
    And New Hampshire have "Live Free or Die"

    So again I see this is a case of more laws (restrictions) to help define our
    freedoms to us.

    No politic's or red neck here.
    But I do remember riding my bike back to the jr High school with my 12g high standard pump after school to go trap shooting with the shcools rod and gun club. Besides my wrestling coach, Police Chief Demario would join us. I don't know why things that are performed responsibily
    have to change. I hope it does not for you.

    K2
     
  7. Boonebird

    Boonebird Member

    62
    1
    voluntary shut down is still in effect. The range is looking for a large sum of money to be honest 250,000 by next thursday. Im not sure how much has been raised or not. The Lyman family has invested 250,000 allready into attornys and what not.
     
  8. Boonebird

    Boonebird Member

    62
    1
    If anyone would like donations can be made at Page 1. Thanks for any help.
     
  9. Boonebird

    Boonebird Member

    62
    1
    I know they need proof of the bullets traveling over this mountain. I dont think they have any. We shall see when we have to appear in court on the 24th.
     
  10. Uncle Russ

    Uncle Russ Senior Member

    1,105
    3
    If that kind of money is involved anyway, your lawyers might try some discovery requiring production of all pieces owned by that guy for any chambering using the .308 bullet, and do your own ballistics tests. It would also be interesting to see what your expert thinks of what bullet deformation would have occurred from over the mountain as opposed to being fired from close-up.

    With any luck, in your state, you will get a jury made up of all those folks in Hartford yesterday who just watched that 78-year-old man who was run over and lay paralyzed in the street. I'm not saying it couldn't have happened in Texas. It probably will.

    Russ
     
  11. Boonebird

    Boonebird Member

    62
    1
    All I want up north is a nice little eddy that contains a few chunk happy yellowfin. So I can pull out the 30w and my new custom fluke/ tuna rod and hear them sing. I wish this where a real bad nightmare. But its not.
     
  12. Boonebird

    Boonebird Member

    62
    1
    On June 17 @ Blue Trail Range 6PM there will be an organizational meeting to develop a Fundraiser to benefit the range to be held August 2. Your help is needed.

    Please visit Save Blue Trail Range
     
  13. Boonebird

    Boonebird Member

    62
    1
    Thanks for any support that is given.
     
  14. Boonebird

    Boonebird Member

    62
    1
    Blue Trail's affect on reservoir questioned
    By: George Moore, Staff06/19/2008
    Email to a friendPost a CommentPrinter-friendly
    WALLINGFORD - As accusations and controversy rage about the safety of the Blue Trail Range on North Branford Road, another issue is bubbling under the surface: the gun range's impact on the Ulbrich Reservoir.


    On Tuesday, Town Councilor Vincenzo DiNatale raised questions before the Public Utilities Commission about whether spent bullets on reservoir watershed should be removed, and who would remove them. On Wednesday, he called on Blue Trail to start a program to remove its spent bullets from the watershed.

    "I just don't think it should be the responsibility of the water customers (to pay) for the cleanup of that site," he said.

    While water within the reservoir has tested clean, DiNatale said the presence of lead bullets near the reservoir presents a risk.

    DiNatale is the nephew of Pat DiNatale, an outspoken critic of Blue Trail who has sued the range over alleged safety threats. Vincenzo DiNatale said he has "no interest" in seeing the business shut down and that he is concerned only about its environmental impact as a Wallingford water consumer.

    In response to questions of water safety, the Wallingford Water Division is performing lead tests in and around the Ulbrich Reservoir and the state Department of Public Health has analyzed available water sampling data.

    As the scrutiny continues, Blue Trail is quick to note that it existed and operated before the reservoir was built.

    "The reservoir was built on top of a historic shooting range," said Blue Trail attorney Martha Dean.

    The range struck a deal with Wallingford in 1961 in which it would convey land to the town for a reservoir. In the agreement, Blue Trail retained the right to shoot over the future water body and into the side of Tri-Mountain State Park. As it exists today, Blue Trail is just west of the reservoir, its 200-yard range separated from the water by a 35-yard buffer of trees.

    While Dean would not discuss DiNatale's call for a cleanup system, she said the reservoir has yielded clean drinking water over the decades. Water Division testing in the 1990s found that water within the Ulbrich Reservoir was clean, although some lead was found in water runoff from Blue Trail bullet sites.

    Annual testing of pretreated water at a connected water body, Pistapaug Pond, has shown no evidence of lead contamination within the last five or six years, according to Darrell Smith, of the Department of Public Health. Water from Ulbrich is pumped into Pistapaug before it reaches the treatment plant. Smith, the acting chief of the drinking water section, has also received preliminary data from the recent tests at Ulbrich Reservoir.

    Samples taken on May 9 found a lead content of .003 milligrams per liter on a stream from Blue Trail into the reservoir, Smith said. Another sample found less than .001 milligrams per liter at a stream at the south end of the reservoir, he said. The May 9 sampling occurred on a rainy day.

    Smith said these numbers are relatively small. The maximum amount of lead allowed in pretreated water is .05 milligrams per liter, he said.

    Given what he's seen so far, Smith said there does not appear to be a significant lead problem, but he has asked for lead testing at different depths within the Ulbrich Reservoir.

    The Department of Public Health does not prohibit shooting on watersheds.
     
  15. Boonebird

    Boonebird Member

    62
    1
    This guy is a bad hemroid that will not go away. He is like cancer of the brain.
     
  16. Boonebird

    Boonebird Member

    62
    1
    Local News
    Blue Trail Range sued
    By: George Moore, Record-Journal staff 06/04/2008
    Email to a friendPost a CommentPrinter-friendly
    WALLINGFORD - On the same day that the Blue Trail Range held a press conference to highlight safety improvements it has made, a lawsuit was filed in New Haven Superior Court seeking to shut it down.


    As the North Branford Road business takes voluntarily steps to ease safety worries, a high-stakes legal battle is brewing between the rifle range and its opponents.

    The lawsuit filed Wednesday was brought by Durham resident Pat DiNatale, the most outspoken critic of the range. The suit seeks to shut down the facility until it is deemed safe by a judge. The lawsuit is a response to at least three incidents in the last seven months in which Durham homes near the range were struck by bullets. One of the homes was DiNatale's.

    While state police have not concluded where those bullets came from, DiNatale's attorney, John Williams, said it is a matter of common sense.

    "You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out where those are coming from," Williams said.

    Williams is also preparing a lawsuit against the town of Wallingford for allowing the range to shoot onto town property. That lawsuit has not yet been filed, but Williams said the agreement between the town and the range could have put others at risk. The agreement was part of a 1961 land transfer in which the range conveyed property to Wallingford for a reservoir project.

    Williams, of New Haven, has experience litigating against gun ranges. He represented residents against a gun club in Ledyard who complained about bullet strikes. Williams said a court is now monitoring the club to ensure safety.

    Gearing up for litigation, Blue Trail has hired a second attorney, Martha Dean of Avon. Dean successfully defended the Metacon Gun Club in Simsbury in a lawsuit brought by a land preservation society.

    Blue Trail on Friday voluntarily agreed to shut down its 100- and 200-yard ranges temporarily. Both ranges face Tri-Mountain, behind which are Durham homes that have been struck by bullets. Just a few days earlier, on Memorial Day, a bullet struck a home on Tri-Mountain Road in Durham, though authorities have not concluded where it came from.

    Blue Trail's press conference Wednesday highlighted a project to increase the height of the berm behind its 100-yard range.

    After the press conference, Blue Trail attorney Craig Fishbein again noted that there is no proof that recent bullet strikes were caused by the range. Fishbein has suggested that the strikes could be caused by people hunting in the woods. He added, however, that the range is committed to safety and would use the temporary shutdown to make improvements.

    "For us to sit here and say 'Prove it' would be inappropriate," he said.

    The range has also enlarged the wooden baffles that prevent shooters in the 100-yard range from firing too high in the air. DiNatale said he is not satisfied with the improvements.

    Fishbein said two gun-safety experts have visited Blue Trail this week. Blue Trail has received safety advice from the National Rifle Association, according to New Haven television station WTNH.

    Fishbein said there are no plans for safety improvements at the 200-yard range, which does not have a backstop behind its targets. There is a large ditch behind the targets, which makes it difficult to construct a berm. The 200-yard range, he said, is often used by police departments as a practice area.
     
  17. Uncle Russ

    Uncle Russ Senior Member

    1,105
    3
    I may not have read it in these posts, but somebody also needs to check whether there are records on the degree of lead in water on areas not subject to any significant range activity--i.e., only occasional shooting over the years by hunters etc.
     
  18. Boonebird

    Boonebird Member

    62
    1
    Well this feeder creek with the highest lead level in it starts on my club property acrossed the street. The club shoot sporting clays on the property once every month sometimes twice a month. There is a swamp about 3 acres that they shoot into. Now im not sure I should open up my mouth or not how much lead is going down this creek 500 yards to the resy? I dont know. This whole thing is muffed up.
     
  19. Uncle Russ

    Uncle Russ Senior Member

    1,105
    3
    Couldn't agree more.
     
  20. Boonebird

    Boonebird Member

    62
    1
    Yea this guy is unreal.