Hollow Spectra IV: Glued Serve Strength Test

Discussion in 'Tackle and Rigging' started by pametfisher, May 22, 2009.

  1. pametfisher

    pametfisher Senior Member

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    In Hollow Spectra III, I did some routine testing of three commercial windon leaders. Only one, from BHP Tackle, passed the grade.

    As part of that testing and also in Hollow Spectra II, I put forward the idea that in a properly made, glued Serve, the Serve itself carried 80% or more of the load and the Splice (where the mono is inside the Spectra), was a backup in case the Serve failed.

    This is not the conventional wisdom. Conventional wisdom holds that the Splice carries the load and the Serve is merely for pretensioning.

    In order to examine this further, this morning I removed all but 7 3/4" of the mono from inside a BHP Tackle leader. This left a 2 3/4" Splice section and two 2 1/2" Serve glue areas--one for the inner wall and one for the outer wall.

    In doing this, I added 10-20% to the load that the Serve must carry since the Splice according to my explanation does carry 10-20% of the load.

    So I took it to the lab, lifted 80 pounds, ten times. The Serve is intact and there is no difference in performance. The leader is still 100% serviceable.

    I don't think that BHP Tackle will guarantee this performance and I'm not even saying that you should try it but I will add that by removing this extra material, this leader now casts as well as a P.R. or Mid knot and is even smoother in the guides for casting and when reeling back through the guides.
     
  2. John_Madison CT

    John_Madison CT Senior Member

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    Wow, very surprising. I always thought more mono inside the Hollow Core was better. Perhaps it's a waste.

    How about some pics. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 2 - 2.5" served areas. I can only think of one on Basil's topshots.
     

  3. pametfisher

    pametfisher Senior Member

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    Wow, very surprising. I always thought more mono inside the Hollow Core was better. Perhaps it's a waste.

    How about some pics. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 2 - 2.5" served areas. I can only think of one on Basil's topshots.

    It'll be a while before I can do photos but their is a 2.5" glued area for the inner layer (hidden) and a 2.5" glued outer layer, totaling 5".

    The amount inside your splice, if you glue and glue well (Basil's secret sauce?), is your insurance policy and 10-20% of the load handing. I would keep it unless I were very, very confident.

    The reason for the experiment was to show that the distribution of forces is about as I indicated, since my explanation runs against the conventional wisdom. Pretty interesting, eh?
     
  4. John_Madison CT

    John_Madison CT Senior Member

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    Yes, very interesting. There are some who serve with Glue only ! I've seen guys who catch Giant Bluefin tuna only use a few half hitches of waxed floss and it seems to work fine. Go figure.
     
  5. pametfisher

    pametfisher Senior Member

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    Yes, very interesting. There are some who serve with Glue only ! I've seen guys who catch Giant Bluefin tuna only use a few half hitches of waxed floss and it seems to work fine. Go figure.

    It makes perfect sense. There are two ways a spliced connection can work. Insert enough mono so that the splice holds (a few feet) and Serve but don't glue. When you do this, the mono can, after several load cycles, creep a few percent at a time, outside the Serve. As long as you have enough mono inserted, you may not even notice. (I test Serve with a rubber band tied in an Overhand knot.)

    The other approach is to glue the serve. If you do this in the best way, the Serve never moves, and carries the whole load. When you do this, the Splice is a backup.

    It's not bad at all to have a Serve that is not glued if you make them yourself. The main thing is to know that the Serve will move a little with each high load cycle. My Striper fishing setups are now this way. They just never see enough of a load. For BFT, one of my friends who fishes for Giants uses a 30 foot Splice and dental floss, like you mentioned. If you make the Serve right, a 4 foot Splice will do fine.

    If you're making leaders to sell, you pretty much have to make a super-high-quality Serve or else they pull apart, like Brands M and S did.

    I think one good way to make homemade Serves is a high pressure Nail knot over the Spectra where the Mono exits that doesn't overlap onto the Mono (since the Mono can move a little). If you used 80# lines and 20 lbs. drag there is only a little movement from the load cycling. Glue over the top of the Serve could protect the Nail knot a little.

    In the end though if you glue and wrap in the conventional way, the Serve will start to move once the load exceeds the glue's holding power. The Splice then carries the load and it creeps apart but NEVER slips until too much Mono has crept out--50 or more cycles of a high load.
     
  6. Old Timer

    Old Timer Member

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    I agree with Pametfisher. I have some serves that are 5-6" in length and glued. I don't seem to have any problems with them. They still cast fine and go thru the guides without any problem. Any thoughts?
     
  7. pametfisher

    pametfisher Senior Member

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    I agree with Pametfisher. I have some serves that are 5-6" in length and glued. I don't seem to have any problems with them. They still cast fine and go thru the guides without any problem. Any thoughts?

    This is a fine approach from a strength and reliability standpoint as long as you keep an eye on the wrapping. With a 5-6' serve, I guess you have several turns around the reel when you cast. Some who are aggressive casters find that the weight of the Spliced section coming off the reel hits the rod and reduces casting distance. Also after a day of casting if the top 100 yards of line becomes less tightly packed the long Splice can pick up some "wind-type" knots of loose line. For those reasons, I've designed a Serve that is strong enough to only need a 12" or less Splice.
     
  8. Old Timer

    Old Timer Member

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    This is a fine approach from a strength and reliability standpoint as long as you keep an eye on the wrapping. With a 5-6' serve, I guess you have several turns around the reel when you cast. Some who are aggressive casters find that the weight of the Spliced section coming off the reel hits the rod and reduces casting distance. Also after a day of casting if the top 100 yards of line becomes less tightly packed the long Splice can pick up some "wind-type" knots of loose line. For those reasons, I've designed a Serve that is strong enough to only need a 12" or less Splice.

    I believe you misread my comment. I'm talking about the serve length in inches, i.e., 5-6 inches, not feet. Wow, 5-6 ft serve. Don't think so.
     
  9. pametfisher

    pametfisher Senior Member

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    I believe you misread my comment. I'm talking about the serve length in inches, i.e., 5-6 inches, not feet. Wow, 5-6 ft serve. Don't think so.

    I did misread you! You did say 5-6". You must be making a great serve. Way to go. PF