hollow braid question

Discussion in 'Tackle and Rigging' started by Brokejeep, Dec 27, 2008.

  1. Brokejeep

    Brokejeep Senior Member

    226
    1
    I am in need of putting new line on and am wondering if Jerry Brown Hollow is a good way to go and and if the Chinese cuff is as good as their website says? And will it work with Floro. I found some 130lb for a decent price, would anyone recommend it?
     
  2. Eastern Tackle

    Eastern Tackle Senior Member

    1,660
    33
    What are you putting it on?
     

  3. feeder

    feeder Senior Member

    358
    0
    JB works well. The white version is nice soft line and I've used it multiple times with no problem. It will work well with flouro or mono. When doing the finger cuff you should insert the mono into the hollow for 4-5 ft then glue/serve the tag end where the mono enters the hollow to keep it there under slack conditions. I wouldn't trust just the finger cuff to hold mono or flouro. That's just me though.
     
  4. Brokejeep

    Brokejeep Senior Member

    226
    1
    It's going on spinning and conventional.
     
  5. feeder

    feeder Senior Member

    358
    0
    It's going on spinning and conventional.

    130 hollow on a spinner? What spinner are you using? I think most of us stick to solid for spinners since the hollow lays down in such a way on the spool that if affects your casting distance as it comes off. Additionally 130 might be a little large for anything out there currently (except MAYBE the Twinspin 50).
     
  6. Brokejeep

    Brokejeep Senior Member

    226
    1
    So you are not recommending hollow for spinning at all? Sorry for all the questions and thanks for all the input.
     
  7. feeder

    feeder Senior Member

    358
    0
    So you are not recommending hollow for spinning at all? Sorry for all the questions and thanks for all the input.


    NP, we're all here to share ideas/experiences. I've tried it before in the past and it never worked out well for me on a spinner. When it comes off the spool during a cast it produces wind knots at times, but mostly you lose distance. Also, the size of that line as I said before is also too large for 99% of the spinners out there right now. 60lb solid JB works great from experience and even solid 80 to an extent.

    The 130 will be good on a conventional though (provided it's large enough to handle the line). I load my 50 and 30's up with it and I've never had a problem. If it's a good price you might get it and keep it around for you larger reels. The great thing about hollow is that you can splice it when needed.
     
  8. fishordie

    fishordie Senior Member

    362
    35
    I have been using J.B. Hollow almost since it came out and LOVE it. I use it on all my spinners and conventionals. My Accurate 12 twin spin uses 60 hollow, My Accurate 20 spinner uses 60 hollow spliced to 80 hollow on top and my 50 Spinner is Straight 100 hollow. It is almost impossible to break even 60 pound test spectra with looped connections unless the line is abraided or cut while pulling on a fish. I have had no problems with wind knots like you might get on a conventional throwing straight hollow. I also have been using premade windons for many years and never had a failure with the mono or flouro inserted about 4 feet, served and glued. I fish mostly big fish and have tested just about every type of combination of solid and hollow spectra's and this is what I have come up with. I agree that I would not trust the Chinese cuff alone as the serve or crimp system gives you the assurance the line will not slip in slack conditions.

    On my conventionals, even my smaller reels big game reels, I use the J.B. hollow. I just happen to love my loop to loop connections that are knot free rather than a back to back uni or other spectra to mono connection. I have not tied a Bimini or Albright in years. I happen to love connections that are 100% strong.

    Just as importantly Jerry Brown has the very BEST customer service in the business. Line will be replaced almost overnight if you have problems though most of the problems I have heard of are due to winder error by collapsing or crushing the spool the line comes on when winding with heavy duty line winders. Even those problems are few and far between.

    Just my 2 cents but I have been using J.B. for around 5 years with no problems, up to 50 days a year going long range and never changing out the bulk of the line. I only replace the top 50 yds or so if there is any signs of rubbing on the hull or abrasions. Try it you'll love it but learn how to splice it, loop it and make wind on top shots. Knotted connections will be a thing of the past.

    Jamie
     
  9. pametfisher

    pametfisher Senior Member

    1,387
    30
    I've been testing the 60# for two months. The end-splices are every bit as strong as they say on the JB site. Loop to loop is as close to 100% as I can measure. Only the Mid Knot and Bimini Twist in solid come close to the end-splice strength. In fact, I can't break the end-splice loop, the line always goes first. I've put it on a reel and I'm going to continue casting it for a couple more months over the winter.
     
  10. Sea Crappie

    Sea Crappie Senior Member

    366
    0
    JB makes great hollow line. It's my favorite hollow-core and I use it on heavy conventional gear. For jigging and popping though, I'd not use it. Spent a whole season with hollow JB 60 on one of my spinners. Compared to other lines I found it did not cast as far and had more wind-knots. Since it's thicker than a solid core equivalent, I don't use it for jigging either, since I want the thinnest line for its test to avoid drag.

    The finger cuff and splice connections are super strong, probably the best consistent strength of any connection option out there.

    Especially when it comes to popping, I'm looking for top of the line casting performance, and I don't feel hollowcore gives you that when it comes to spinning reels.
     
  11. John_Madison CT

    John_Madison CT Senior Member

    971
    21
    Pametfisher: How many bimini twist turns are you using in solid braid to get near 100% knot strenght??
     
  12. pametfisher

    pametfisher Senior Member

    1,387
    30
    Pametfisher: How many bimini twist turns are you using in solid braid to get near 100% knot strenght??

    The actual number of turns I use is between 70 and 100. I use the following site which uses the rod as a bimini twist rigging tool. I can make the BT in a minute or so. Here's the link: Two Hand Bimini Twist

    When you twist the loop it needs to be about medium tight. Too tight at the top of the knot (near the single main line) and you loose strength. Too loose and it will slide under load. The photo in the above link looks like where I end up on tightness.

    Why such a high number (70-100 initial twists is common for me)?

    1) When you make the top wrap, most of the initial twists come untwisted. The twists are the engines that drive the top wraps. So you only end up with 40% of the initial twists under the top wraps.

    2) That is import because it is the friction of the twists that holds the tag end to the main line to form the loop. Spectra is roughly as slippery as teflon. In a good knot in, say, 80# line, you would like to be able to pull with 80# force on the main line. Simply, that means each loop of the main line has to be able to hold 40# of force. Of the two legs of the loop, the mainline leg can hold 40# as that's half its rating. So the tag which is wrapped around (twisted around) the main must be twisted enough times to hold its 40# share of the load. In the Spectra I've tested, 30-40 twists under the wraps achieves the 40# load for the tag side of the knot. So if you want 30-40 under wraps, you have to start with 70-100.

    The Bimini is a great knot to know. Since almost all knots cut line strength in half (tie an overhand knot in the middle of a line, carefully see what weight it holds, about half of actual), having two legs on the Bimini gets you back to 100% knots if you tie the Bimini to terminal tackle or to a leader.

    Two other approaches:

    1. Tie a 8 turn uni or a 5 turn surgeons to make a loop. Put one drop of loctite 406 in the middle of the knot. Wait to dry. Nearly 100% but you need dry clean line to do it. Try it, see what you think.

    2. If you are tying directly to a leader, try the Mid Knot or P.R.. The hard part is that you don't know they will hold until you pull to about 70% of their design rating--e.g. pull 80# braid to 55# after the knot is made. When you're done, the mono/fluoro should look like this (if you took the spectra off), photo attached.

    Feel free to PM me if you want more.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. John_Madison CT

    John_Madison CT Senior Member

    971
    21
    Thanks for the info.. I had no idea a Surgeons Loop was that strong. I've tied them many times, but never tested them. I guess that's the knot to tie if you don't have time or feel uncomfortable with a bimini twist.

    I've been able to do a Bimini twist fairly well in braid, but have been confused by the # of twists. That Sportfishing Magazine article claiming 12 twists was stronger than 20 really had me very wondering what to do.
     
  14. pametfisher

    pametfisher Senior Member

    1,387
    30
    Thanks for the info.. I had no idea a Surgeons Loop was that strong. I've tied them many times, but never tested them. I guess that's the knot to tie if you don't have time or feel uncomfortable with a bimini twist.

    I've been able to do a Bimini twist fairly well in braid, but have been confused by the # of twists. That Sportfishing Magazine article claiming 12 twists was stronger than 20 really had me very wondering what to do.


    The Surgeon's is not as strong as the Bimini but if you add a drop of Loctite 406 it might be pretty good. The Surgeon's pulls together like many of the Uni, Nail, Blood, etc. knots and has about the same strength. I may try it with the Loctite and see. When I have to chose, I'll still use the Bimini since like the Mid Knot, there are no stressful entry angles for the line.

    Other than slippage which can be prevented in most cases by enough twists, the main cause of all knot failure is stress concentration at the first turn in the knot. Most knots have a 180 degree change of direction. the Bimini and Mid only change course about 15 degrees, leading to much less stress and better knot efficiency.

    That Sportfishing article has confused a lot of people. Since he was methodical and used an IGFA machine, readers naturally trusted the result. But in reality, there was a testing error, the line was pulled too quickly by that machine, in effect snapping the lines. If you start with 12 twists, you only end up with 4-5 under wraps, not nearly enough by a factor of 5-10 to prevent the knot from slipping. Each leg has to be capable of carrying the same load for top performance.