Help with diving lure design

Discussion in 'Lure Building' started by flyguy, Nov 23, 2016.

  1. flyguy

    flyguy Senior Member

    951
    136
    I've made a bunch of poppers and stickbaits, I now want to try a diving lure. I'll be casting/retrieving vs trolling. Below is the blank I've carved. Two design options I'm considering are:
    1. put the tow-eye on the top/back of the head like a Halco Max and weight it under the chin.
    2. put the tow-eye in the "normal" position, weight the lure in the middle or front-middle, and add a bib.
    I'm shooting for a shallow-to-medium diving lure with serpentine wriggle vs. a vibrating action if that makes sense, so I'm leaning towards making a bib out of Plexiglas/Lexan vs option #1. It'll be hard to test different bib designs so figure I'd ask here first as to where to begin: I'm thinking wider/fatter bib vs longer-thinner will give me the action I want. Also, I'm thinking 45 degrees or so for the angle. Am I on the right track?


    [​IMG]
     
  2. Hooksetter6

    Hooksetter6 Lifetime Supporting Members

    177
    45
    First of all let me say I like your design so far. Also, I am no expert by ANY means.

    It looks like that is a pretty good sized blank, so if the "Bib" gets very long it is going to be a real chore to cast and retrieve.
    Of course, the angle is going to effect the depth at which the plug will run. The 2 things that will give you wiggle as opposed to vibration are the in the placement of the Bib, the further forward the better to get the snake like wobble I think you are talking about, and a wider more vertical bib will also help.
    To adjust the depth you can either add weight, or add angle to the lip. Adding angle adds drag and makes cranking more difficult, but does add to the wiggle factor. If you don't need or want to get very deep you can just keep the Bib/Lip short, an inch or less, and that will relieve some of the drag.
    Adding weight will increase your casting distance but can be tricky because of weight placement to get the desired wiggle. Best casting distance vs. best wiggle are contrary to each other. Best wiggle will be achieved with the weight placed in the front 1/3 to 1/2 of the lure but this creates an unstable casting balance, which is best with weight at the rear of the lure.
    I know I have just stirred a giant pot and hope there are smarter people out there to help you better. It is just a frustrating (but fun) game of try, try again to achieve the perfect combination. Good luck!! Can't wait to see the finished product.
     

  3. flyguy

    flyguy Senior Member

    951
    136
    Thanks Hooksetter6. The blank is 6 inches (15cm), so it's not too big. I hadn't thought about how far forward/back the placement of the bib would impact the action so I'll see about getting it as far forward as possible, but still enough wood around the bib so it's structurally sound.

    Hoping to get it thru-wired and sealed over the next week or so.
     
  4. DenisB

    DenisB Senior Member

    5,355
    407
    A bib shape roughly like the profile of end of your thumb & nail works quite well.
    depth of retrieve vs bib angle is affected by the buoyancy of the lure the bib is fighting against.
    ditto resultant action.
    best action & most running depth for bib angle comes with suspending buoyancy.
    best action for ballast weight comes where the ballast weight is concentrated near the centre of action of the lure.
    ?? remember the tutorial on finding centre of action & centre of gravity................using masking tape & marker pen dot on top of lure etc. ?????
    ( moving dot till it has minimised movement.)
     
  5. flyguy

    flyguy Senior Member

    951
    136
    Hi DenisB - I don't remember the masking tape/marker pen tutorial? I just went through the tutorial list and read through several but couldn't find it. Do you have the link handy?
     
  6. DenisB

    DenisB Senior Member

    5,355
    407
    It was in a discussion about tuning lures
    basically just stick a bit of masking tape on the top of the lure when test swimming the prototype . put a significant black dot on the tape at the top of the lure with a marker pen, where you guess the centre of the action is & test swim, moving the dot location back / forwards till you minimise the lateral oscillation of the dot as the lure is retrieved...............centre of action is where the dot movement is smallest.
    At that point the dot movement reflects roll of the lure but not wriggle.
    for trolling lures you put all the ballast as close to the centre of action as possible to maximise action.................but a lure set up like that typically casts poorly as it tumbles easily.
    for casting lures you put just enough ballast towards the tail to stabilise tumbling & the rest of the ballast nearest the centre of action.
    placing ballast higher in the lure body & bending the towing eye upwards maximises wriggle & roll action.
    BEWARE..........moving either too high will completely destabilise the lure action..........move upwards till the action starts to destabilise & then move back down a bit to stabilise the action.
    You then know you have maximised the action capable with your design.
    FWIW
     
  7. flyguy

    flyguy Senior Member

    951
    136
    Thanks DenisB...Will give that a try
     
  8. flyguy

    flyguy Senior Member

    951
    136
    Here's the finished product. This one kicked my arse both in design and the pattern. I was going for a rainbow runner pattern and I had a hell of a time trying to get color and the shading right. I ended up going over it too many times and it got too dark. I couldn't test it very well before painting because the little farm pond near me is too muddy and too shallow. I cast it out, it starts to dive and wriggle but I soon lose sight of it in the muddy water and then it hits bottom. I got a few casts in before I stopped rather than risk snagging something on the bottom and losing it. From what I saw I may have to cut that bib down so it doesn't dive quite so much. Testing will resume in the gulf stream off NC in March.


    [​IMG]
     
    jiggingnut and porcha like this.
  9. porcha

    porcha Broscientist

    1,385
    458
    it does look rainbow runner colors, there has to be at least 6 blues before any yellow comes through

    whats worse, busting off a lure you made or a $200 carpenter
     
  10. flyguy

    flyguy Senior Member

    951
    136
    LOL - I make lures for fishing so no biggie if I lose it.
     
  11. Hooksetter6

    Hooksetter6 Lifetime Supporting Members

    177
    45
    Looks pretty freakin good to me!! How deep you think it is diving? My guess looking at the bib, the best I can tell, would be maybe 6'?
     
  12. flyguy

    flyguy Senior Member

    951
    136
    Ha, thanks! It's tough to tell but 6ft is a good guess. I'd cast into middle of the farm pond and it'd dive pretty aggressively. I could feel the wriggle through the line but I don't think it ever leveled out. I think it kept wanting to dive but ran out of room as it approached the bank. It would kick up mud and I was hooking branches, sticks and leaves. My options at that point were to buy a freshwater fishing license and head to the nearest lake 30 minutes away and get funny looks for using a giant lure in FW, or to clean it up and paint it. I'm anxious to see how it really swims on our March trip.
     
  13. Kim

    Kim Senior Member Supporting Member

    1,688
    595
    Send me one of those bad boys and I'll let you know how it does a few days after I get it!
     
    flyguy likes this.
  14. Hooksetter6

    Hooksetter6 Lifetime Supporting Members

    177
    45
    You'd better build another before you use that one, just in case you loose that one and then you don't have a model to run off of. Maybe just shelf that one for prosperity after building a new one.
     
    flyguy likes this.