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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Post pics when the new sticks land, Benny
They came the other day! The new se seem to be stiffer than the “S”. But maybe being 4” shorter is the reason. Butt section seems to be slightly thicker in the SE. That should help with backbone strength.

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
They updated the listing with some videos of the rod in action earlier today or yesterday I think. To me it looks pretty similar to the S, but with maybe a little bit more backbone?
Tip size seems the same on the power zero between the sj3r and sj3se but the butt section seems to be a little thicker. So having more backbone makes sense

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
To my understanding the SE was made exclusively for Tokayo tackle. I don’t think any other shop will carry the SE. The power 1 handled the grouper and that AJ just fine. Not sure if it’s inferior to the S model. Just a different feel with it being shorter.

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
How about the action of the rod on the jig? I noticed in one recently posted video that the rod hardly bends or curves while pitching.


Please note that I am asking for all this as myself I was in the market recently for a SJ3 S x Power 3 Conventional but it was too late; all stocks from online stores that would ship to my country were gone and I could not get one. The SJ3 SE X debuted and was some something I was considering but I still have doubts in its performance as compared to the SJ3 S X. Its advertising does not seem convincing and in fact have contradictions like 'more powerful' and so on but logic and comparison numbers 'say' different and also there are differences between the numbers posted for the same item by Tokayo.
The SE is shorter so you don’t get the long lift to give the jig a long fall. Not sure if it being shorter makes it feel stiffer. But to me that’s the feeling I get. In my opinion it seems to be just as powerful as the S. What I heard about the drag pressure being lowered was for the reason that they were made exclusively for Tokayp with Tokayo specs and don’t have HR backing up the rod. So the lowered the pressure just for their own purpose. I still put will put the same pressure on the SE as I do on the S. I was going to purchase the SE 2 power but I decided against it. I use the SE 0 with jigs I use for the S 1 and the SE 1 with jigs I use with the S 2. In my area I never go over 400g and that’s very rare. Having 3 series from power 0 to power 3. I like the S series best it just feels best and is a nice length.

Benny
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Thanks.

My thinking is that if the rod does not bend enough followed by the release (elastic effect), then that would negatively affect one type of slow jigging technique - the one where we create a curve either by pulling or by reeling, the curve straightens, and in doing so, pitches the jig up.

The reduced length will affect long fall but not by so much given the rod given is only about 10-20cm less in length. In fact, given that if the rod curves less, it will produced less movement for the long fall too because there will be lest elastic energy transfered to the jig.

Assuming same material and construction, a reduction in length and increased in thickness from tip to bottom is expected to decrease the curvature. There is a possibility that the material is different because of 'new material, more light, more power', but then the material and/or construction might be stiffer too.

About the max drag, as said, there are differences (contradictions) for the same item. On Tokayo website, the SJ3 SE X P3 is said to have a maximum of 27 kg but on their facebook page, many posts say 28 kg. About the rod having a lesser max drag because is for Tokayo only, I do not think so, because, to my knowledge, Tokayo focuses on maximum strength, that is the bigger the max drag, the better; they (at least A Ka, from what he told me) focus on catching the biggest fish.

Yes, I have the impression that the S is better, and is strange why discontinue something that had so much success and still have demand. I still think there is a problem at the factory or something fishy going on.
You may be 100% correct. It is odd to stop production on something with through the roof sales, and sold out with every restock.

Benny
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Have you guys considered maybe they were just using somebody else blanks and putting their name on them.......then using the great youtube videos to sell a ton.
Maybe who was sourcing them wanted more money or didn't want to keep sourcing someone who was selling better than their "normally branded as" product these blanks were originally built for.
In the 70's there were about umpteen different brands of the popular CB radios that were the craze. If you opened them up to repair, you soon figured out only few different variants of the electronic circuit boards existed and were made in a handful of factories. Every different company, just put different knobs and buttons and labels and lights on the front, to make their brand better.:)
I’m sure any thing is possible, and I wouldn’t be surprised. Wish I knew what other company blank they were using, I’d save a some bucks.

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
From what I got from A Ka the kid in the video. He says that the SJ3S was replaced with the Diamond series from HR. Tokayo asked HR to make the SE exclusively for Tokayo, to Tokayo specs. As far as the HR jigs with the Tokyo logo is just a advertising way to push Tokayo products. I bought HR jigs from US shops and they’re the same jig just no name.

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Benny,

Do these rods work lighter jigs? For example, the power 2 SJ3S states the jig rating as Max 500. Will it properly work a 200 gm jig, or even a 100; or is it too stiff to work the lighter jigs well?

thanks,

Aasim
Sorry I don’t know how low you can go with the “S” P2. I have a P1 and P2 in the SJR3S and used them as suggested. I used as low as 200g and up to 290g on the P1 with great results. If I needed to go lighter I would most likely set up my SJ3R P0.

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
I didn’t use a 200g jig on the “R” P1 but I’m sure if the “S” P1 worked a 200g the “R” being the same blank should work a 200g, just as well and being rated to 250g. If I remember the P”0” will work down to a 60g. But don’t quote me on that my memory isn’t like it was. But remember it worked for me doesn’t mean it will work the same under different conditions, depth, current etc….
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
I think the maximum weight is the weight that can be pulled by the rod, curving the top part of the rod, followed by full recovery or recoiling at a certain speed, that is the rod straightens back to its original shape after the pull with the weight still on the line. A bigger weight will prevent 'full' recoil, that is the a significant curve will remain as long as the weight is hanging on it, or the elastic recovery will be way too slow. The curving and 'recoiling' is what pitches the jig in slow jigging. Less recoil or very slow recoil means less pitching (weight too heavy). Less curving gives less pitching too and somewhat inproper pitching as there will be less of an elastic pull (weight too light). Hence, why there is usually a minimum and maximum weight rating - a range. Best is to give the range and the sweet spot, but some people give the maximum rating only due to how they see things. In jigging, the maximum rating information is more important; someone can still jig a light lure with a heavy rod by adjusting movements with the hand and arm but it is hard to jig a heavy lure on a light rod. The heavy lure will barely move or will move very slowly.

I think it should be ok to jig a 200g lure on a 340g max rated slow jigging rod. Take into consideration that there is a sweet spot (it offers the best action) for the lure weights, and this will be lower than the max rating. As an indication, the estimated sweet spot for the 340g rod is about 230g. The estimated sweet spot for the 800g rod is about 600g. Notice that the sweet spot of a higher max rating rod is below that of the maximum rating of the rod just below it in terms of power; 230g is lower than 250g (max rating of Power 0) and 600g is lower than 650g (max rating of power 2).
Yes that May be all true but the question is how light can you go with the max being 340g. We know that if the jig is a wider body and the current is strong it will give more resistance to a lighter jig. But in perfect confirmations will the P2 work a jig under 100g?

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
But is the Black Diamond series a replacement for the SJ3 S? Black Diamond II stops at 340g lure max rating while the SJ III, SJ III R and SJ III S have max lure ratings of 1000g, 800g and 800g respectively. It does not make sense as such for it to be called a 'replacement' as it does not cover the same lure ranges and not even close. There is also the possibility of HR discontinuing products for heavy jigging lures, which makes more sense why they stopped manufacturing certain rods and lures. There is no official announcement or news from Hearty Rise about discontinuation and/or replacement though concerning the rods and jigs concerned, which is kind of improfessional and innappropriate from them; it is as if they let part of their customers in the dark for months.
From what A Ka told me the Diamond is to replace the discontinued sjr3s. Anything other than that I don’t know about the Diamond.

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
I spoke to A Ka about some of my concerns concerning the SE, and also about some people liking the S more and also the feel. His reponse was that the SE is an improvement on the S. It is easier to pitch the jig (what people there says). The rod has more kicking power (he describes the uncoiling as the kicking back).

He said that there will be a limited edition rod coming out soon that will suit people who liked the S more.
Perfect! He’s a nice guy always responds and seems knowledgeable with his responses. Thanks for the heads up! Looking forward for the new “S”

Benny
 
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