Frog braid and bad twisting.

Discussion in 'Tackle and Rigging' started by Gozz, Mar 20, 2009.

  1. Gozz

    Gozz Senior Member

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    I just spooled my reel with some 80# frog braid which has twisted like a vine and I didn't even put that much tension on it.
    It's that bad I reckon it would do damage on my guides.
    [​IMG]
    It almost looks like there are two lines twisted around each other.
    Is this a common problem for hollow core braids,does any one else have this problem with other braids.
    I'm going to ask for my money back and buy Daiwa braid instead.

    Thanks.
     
  2. pametfisher

    pametfisher Senior Member

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    I just spooled my reel with some 80# frog braid which has twisted like a vine and I didn't even put that much tension on it.
    It's that bad I reckon it would do damage on my guides.
    [​IMG]
    It almost looks like there are two lines twisted around each other.
    Is this a common problem for hollow core braids,does any one else have this problem with other braids.
    I'm going to ask for my money back and buy Daiwa braid instead.

    Thanks.

    I think I can answer your question if you explain the method you used to add the line and also any casting you've done since then.

    Have a look at this post. Spooling for minimum line Twist. This is NOT a problem of hollow core line but a spooling problem or a problem of pulling line against the drag. All lines of all types will do it with a spinning reel.

    I would be careful not to cast this line until you've corrected the problem since the risk of a "wind" knot is high with your line like this.

    The line should not harm your guides. The coefficient of friction of Spectra line (it's Spectra, right?) is as low as teflon, twisted or not.
     

  3. Gozz

    Gozz Senior Member

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    The way I spooled the line was,
    I had someone put a ton of pressure on the spool of braid.
    I turned the reel handle until the reel spool was full.
    I then tied a 120pnd leader to the braid and I wanted to test it out, so I tied the leader to the fence,I then cranked the drag to about 14kg and took a few runs in the yard to test my knots.
    The knots where fine it was just the line that was all twisted that had me worried'
    I've used daiwa braid , finns braid and others and have never had this problem before.
     
  4. Gozz

    Gozz Senior Member

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    I just noticed that it was made from "polyethylene".
    Does polyethylene make it spectra line.
     
  5. pametfisher

    pametfisher Senior Member

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    30
    The way I spooled the line was,
    I had someone put a ton of pressure on the spool of braid.
    I turned the reel handle until the reel spool was full.
    I then tied a 120pnd leader to the braid and I wanted to test it out, so I tied the leader to the fence,I then cranked the drag to about 14kg and took a few runs in the yard to test my knots.
    The knots where fine it was just the line that was all twisted that had me worried'
    I've used daiwa braid , finns braid and others and have never had this problem before.

    PE means polyethelyne, which is Spectra or Dyneema Polyethylene

    If you read through the link in my last posting you will see why the line is twisted. Every time you pull line against the drag with the bail closed and then reel it back on, you are adding twists. If the diameter of the spool is about 2.75", you add about 500 twists per 100 yard run. What reel are you using?

    The same thing happens when you are fishing and the fish takes line against the drag with the bail closed and then you reel it back on.

    The only solution is to periodically untwist the line.

    Also as you saw in your photo twists can propagate so they all end up either before the stripper guide or outside the tip. From the amount of twisting, I'm guessing you made 8 or 10 runs?
     
  6. Basil

    Basil Site Sponsor

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    Line twist with braid is a problem unless you take the proper steps to deal with it. Check the other post pametfisher linked to. Frog braid is solid, not hollow.
     
  7. Gozz

    Gozz Senior Member

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    I knew there was a reason why I asked you guys for help.
    I went outside and joined a good quality BB swivel to my leader and ran the line out by about 50mtr.
    I then wound it all back on with a fair amount of pressure which fixed the problem by about 80% but I feel will get better as I trawl with the outfit next weekend.
    You where right all along with the line twist theory,thank you heaps for setting me straight.
     
  8. pametfisher

    pametfisher Senior Member

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    I knew there was a reason why I asked you guys for help.
    I went outside and joined a good quality BB swivel to my leader and ran the line out by about 50mtr.
    I then wound it all back on with a fair amount of pressure which fixed the problem by about 80% but I feel will get better as I trawl with the outfit next weekend.
    You where right all along with the line twist theory,thank you heaps for setting me straight.

    That's the right idea. If you want to get all the twists out do the following a few times:

    1. Open the bail, run the line out 50 meters or so.

    2. Put the line near you inside a phone book with a few books stacked on top. This is to keep the twists that you already have in the line outside of your rod and reel.

    3. Reel the line back on.

    After you've done it a few times, there will be one twist per revolution of your bail for the line on the reel. Then when you cast, that twist will untwist and your line will lay flat. Reeling it back in will add back the twist, which will come off when you cast, etc.

    Good luck with your trip.
     
  9. fish4stripers

    fish4stripers Senior Member

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    Pamet,

    What about just going out in your boat and just letting the line out trolling without anything on it. Then reel it back wet. Wouldn't this get out all the twist?
     
  10. pametfisher

    pametfisher Senior Member

    1,387
    30
    Pamet,

    What about just going out in your boat and just letting the line out trolling without anything on it. Then reel it back wet. Wouldn't this get out all the twist?

    It sounds like Gozz won't be on the boat for a while and who wants to waste time on the boat untwisting line.

    But you're absolutely right, that works too. I would pinch the line between my fingers as I reeled in so that you only get one twist per turn of the line on the reel. Also, you can lower a weight in deep water and wait.

    Until I thought about spooling a new reel, I hadn't really worked through the mechanics. The big surprise to me was the amount of twisting that the run-against-drag, reel-in, repeat process creates. Murphy's Law will result in those twists bunching together at just the wrong place, just the wrong time.
     
  11. Hoxadunda

    Hoxadunda Guest

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  12. alimufti

    alimufti Member

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    Ive had terrible issues with wind knots, and have observed the following:
    - issues only happen with braid, rarely or never with mono. Sucks, cause other than for trolling all my casting, jigging, popping, bottom fishing and everything else is with braid line.
    - Older model spinning reels i.e shimano aerocast 4010, and shimano speedmaster 4, seem to spool line through the bail unevenly. I always seem to get more line on the higher part of a spinning reel (near the front drag) and less at the back end of the reel. WHY???
    - this does not happen with a shimano sonora on which I have 300 yards of 10lb spiderwire. Have reeled against drag, casted all nite, landed mangrove jacks that ran into snags, and still no wind knots.
    - I spool line onto my reels from another reel (usually a multiplier) so that I have alot of tension. This still does not help.

    Till now I am running with the assumption that these older reels, before the widespread use of superbraid, are just not that efficient with these new lines? Or else I am clearly doing sumthing wrong.