FG in hollow

Discussion in 'Tackle and Rigging' started by Nagrom, Mar 25, 2020.

  1. Nagrom

    Nagrom Member

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    I have tasline 100lb hollow (the spool says true breaking strain 140lb) on my Stella. Now I normally make my own wind on leader and happy with the strength I retain there.

    I want a backup if I have a bust off and need to re rig fast or can’t be bothered making leaders, so have been practicing FG knots with the hollow.
    After dozens of knots it always breaks just inside the rizzuto where the first of the FG wraps start and consistently at around 65-70lb, about 50% of true breaking strain. I’ve tired 20-50 wraps and still the same.

    This seems low to me. While unlikely to snap that through a fishing rod i would like to retain as much strength as possible.
    Any ideas? Does hollow not work as well as solid with an FG?

    I did have one idea where I double the hollow back inside itself and use the doubled section to do an FG. This seemed to work as the line never snapped at the FG anymore. It would always snap where the doubled section of Hollow finishes inside itself. At 100lb+.
    Is this a viable option? It does make it a slower re rig. Has anyone been using FG knots with hollow doubled inside itself?
     
    Cubeye likes this.
  2. explorer

    explorer Member

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    Not enough practice on FG knot so I didn’t try that .....but Out of Curiosity, just did couple using 60lbs Hollow and 60lbs Flouro with PR knot. Held up good.
     

  3. Kim

    Kim Senior Member Supporting Member

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    Truth be told, you can most assuredly pull a loop in HC braid faster than tying an FG Knot or PR knot. In a hot bite I'd probably whip a 3 or 4 turn uni and get back into the action if I didn't have a back up rod.
     
    will eikenbery likes this.
  4. Nagrom

    Nagrom Member

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    my plan eventually is to have at least a back up spool with leader rigged and ready to go.

    i really just want a backup plan. Say I lose or forget a needle to do a loop in hollow or I run out of or forget my wind on leaders.

    So really the question really comes down to is 50% of true breaking strain for a FG in hollow to be expected?

    I cannot get the PR to work in tasline hollow. It is just too slippery, it will not grip even with a 10 inch long and very tight wrap.
     
  5. NickyRod

    NickyRod Active Member

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    Why not make or buy some wind-ons before the trip?
     
  6. DenisB

    DenisB Senior Member

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    Have not had trouble with solid or hollow ( & have used Tasline)
    Quote
    "After dozens of knots it always breaks just inside the rizzuto where the first of the FG wraps start"

    That might just be your problem.

    For best results you need some half hitches nice & tight & every second one reversed before your rizzuto............running FG wraps directly a rizzuto creates a stress concentration in the braid at the commencement of the FG. To maximise strength you need a series of tight half hitches to spread the loadsharing between braid & FG transition into the leader....... the transition point there has very significant vectored forces ( its not a straight pull at that point).
    Many people have difficulty in getting a Rizzuto to stay locked & tight ( in use) when it loosens it creates a sudden transition for load in the braid into a more rigid FG.
    Too many myths around in what makes a good FG ..........extremes abound in too little & too much transition of knots after the FG wraps.

    Have to say ...........a rizzuto is one of those 'knots' that has not fared well in transition from mono to braid..........its not an ending lock that I personally use these days for braid.
    Works great with mono & fluoro to finish things like bimini doubles.
    for braid doubles, FGs, or PRs I use 4 ( min) half hitches ( locked L-R-L-R) & 4 overhand knots L-L-L-L to finish...............& the tag rarely loosens with a lot of use.
    DIY testing >80%
    FWIW
     
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  7. Nagrom

    Nagrom Member

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    That’s what I do.

    like I said. This is a backup in case something unplanned happens.
     
  8. Nagrom

    Nagrom Member

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    Thank you. Great reply.

    I always used to do my FGs with half hitches rather than a rizutto finish.

    I’ll go back to using half hitches and do some more testing.
     
  9. DenisB

    DenisB Senior Member

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    FWIW a couple of overhand knots are more stable ( loosening averse) than half hitches when passing thru guides hence the pattern of half hitches followed by overhand knots.
    I have found overhand knots at the finishing locks more stable ( very much) than a rizzuto
    .ie
    within 20 casts my rizzuto would have dropped a loop or 2 & have a long tag hanging out.........no matter how hard & how carefully I formed them & tightened them.
     
  10. bnz

    bnz Just a guy who likes to fish

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    I’m finding this very curious as I used to do half hitches and then finish with a rizzuto (done only on solid braid to fluoro, use all wind-ons for hollow). But with this configuration it seemed my rizzuto would more than likely come undone at some point so I switched to only a rizzuto finished with a drop of gorilla glue. It rarely, if ever, comes undone and seems to lock down the knot better for me. Maybe I don’t catch enough fish, or big enough fish, to experience these break offs but I don’t get them.
     
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  11. DenisB

    DenisB Senior Member

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    There have been a few lies told on 360T
    none bigger than this one...........
    "Maybe I don’t catch enough fish, or big enough fish, to experience these break offs "........ methinks you have caught more than your share..........:D
    Braid can be a very fickle mistress & how closely we fish it to its 'service strength' ( strength after all terminals etc ) brings out any weaknesses in construction technique.
    Bottom line is that leader connections constructed with a service strength of 50-60% UTS is unlikely to fail at typical drag settings of 30% UTS.
    That said there is nothing wrong with chasing a higher UTS if you are so inclined............or need to because you are fishing your rig with >60% UTS........... typically only achieved in practice when using the lighter line sizes.
     
    Gonefishings likes this.
  12. Nagrom

    Nagrom Member

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    ok. I may have discovered something.

    Tested another 10 or so FG knots with hitches instead of ruzzito. Basically all broke around 70lb, the same as ruzzito finish.

    frustrated, I got a length of the 100lb tasline (140 actual braking strain) and put a loop in each end and tested that. It broke at 90-100lb each time.

    I’m thinking my crude testing methods may be to blame for the low test results of the FG knot.

    it seems to be achieving 70-75% of what I can achieve with loops in hollow braid. So probably what you expect for a FG.
     
    Gonefishings likes this.
  13. Kim

    Kim Senior Member Supporting Member

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    Needles are not necessary to pull a loop in HC braid, a doubled length of solid SS leader works just fine, that's what I keep in my bag for just that reason.
     
  14. Cubeye

    Cubeye Junior member

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    Is it possible that "140 actual braking strain" is incorrect? I realize that each spool is tested and labeled before shipment, but mistakes do happen.
     
  15. Nagrom

    Nagrom Member

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    I suppose that is always a possibility but I have used three separate spools of 100lb and one of 80lb with similar percentages.

    I would like to try it with jerry brown hollow but I don’t have enough of it to snap a lot of it at the moment.
     
    Cubeye likes this.
  16. explorer

    explorer Member

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    If it’s me, I will make more than enough “Windon”s and bring a needle to do the loop for the hollow braid.
    : I would like to think;
    ~ Changing Windon will be faster than FG knot
    ~ Splicing a loop is not that much longer time wise as the FG.

    but hey, that’s just me.....just saying
     
  17. Nagrom

    Nagrom Member

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    that’s what I do.
    Like I said it’s a backup. If I forget something. If I drop my leaders or needles over the side in rough weather. Accidents and mistakes happen. I like to be prepared.

    but in doing this I have discovered either my testing methods don’t seem ideal or tasline breaks significantly lower than its quoted actual breaking strain.

    In ideal conditions you are right a loop vs FG isn’t much different but in rough weather, potentially wet and cold hands, in a small boat I have found a FG is much quicker.
     
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  18. Cubeye

    Cubeye Junior member

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    I've tried to splice a loop, after a breakoff, in 100# JB hollow Spectra. Boat is rocking, line is old, wet, and has a twist in it. Lighting is poor. Not easy to do. I had to run a needle through the Specta to open it up, and then do the splice. It still took a long time. FG is much easier.
     
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  19. Nagrom

    Nagrom Member

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    Got some jerry brown 100lb hollow to test.

    did two tests with loops pulled in each end. Using the same method as I did with the tasline. Broke at 55lb both times.

    I’m pretty confident I need more accurate testing methods. The scales seem accurate when tested.

    I actually think with braid the pressure builds so quick due to zero stretch that the digital scale readout doesn’t keep up with the actual pressure. So by the time it snaps you get a much lower readout than the actual breaking strain.
     
  20. Kim

    Kim Senior Member Supporting Member

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    try using someth8ing like a ratchet strap inline with test material, would give you a bit more control adding tension. Search the forum post for line breaking strengths of braid, couple guys on the forum would probably test for you.
     
    explorer likes this.