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Discussion Starter #41
There are no "scientific studies" about snapper catches and not certain where you get your idiot ass numbers on state water but they're absolutely inaccurate.
The catch/harvest data was collected by the STATES, exactly as you desire,
now they don't fit your narrative, its "fake data", of course if you say so,
only you got it right, everyone else is wrong, another stable genius for sure.

Thankfully under Trump, the states finally DID get some say on a season...but again the quota which is made up by wild ass guesses and NOT science on recreational catches is controlled by an inept government. You're probably the guy who voted for Obamacare too and thinks that MSNBC and CNN are real news agencies. Done with your idiocy...go back to jerking yourself off and pretending you know something.
Amendment 50, which was the ruling that allowed "state control"
was put on the table in JUNE 2016, DURING THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION.
trump was not prez until 9 months later and had ZERO to do with this change.
The feds still dish out the quota to the states, but now the states are "in control"
another yuge win.

Of course, trump could have changed things dramatically for Gulf fisherman,
with just a signature on another executive order, which he signed hundreds of.
But strangely never got around to doing one for average joe fishermen,
especially gulf fishermen who supported him. We know he was a very busy man,
but if he only could have spared an hour or two, on one of those 436 days he
went golfing or to his club to hang out, I mean work,
things could have been so much better for the gulf anglers he loves so much.
I guess playing golf with every multimillionaire golf professional he could,
is how he connects with "average joe" Curiously, not a single "average joe"
golfer was ever invited to golf with him, a true "man of the people"
He also never got around to that often promised middle class tax cut
for the people he loves so much.




you can shove that one Hungry Jerk.
I'm sorry but a liberal new yorker is about as ignorant and egotistical as they come.
AngryJerk go back to jerking yourself off.


PS> for the guy who thinks "local knowledge" is very important,
consider, you've never been to NY, have no idea what this place is like,
or its people, yet you pontificate nonstop about NY.
Your savior, who is from NY, has been known/reputation locally
for the past 25 plus years, as a incompetent uniformed loser
and overall piece of human excrement in general.
That is the all import local knowledge/experience on him.
His non local tv audience, like yourself, knows much better of course.

Oh, I've been a republican for more years than your savior has been,
who was a registered democrat for 15-20 years.
Had to leave the party when it chose a man with a real world reputation for turning
everything he touches into shit. (which he did, like always)

Can't be a part of that type of winning,
I'm not the type of loser who believes in that silliness,
but to each his own.
Save your money, trump the billionaire will be seeking donations
shortly to make winning great again, after losing it all.


PPS> I can understand your personal current state of misery,
and can sympathize a bit with you. First you are over run
by illegals coming into your state and neighborhood ruining things.
And now, the caravans of the biggest ahole liberals on the planet,
Californian's are moving in and taking over the place,
and with the money to get their way.

Dang, rapist drug dealing illegals
and rich socialist liberals from California!!
I'm not sure which is worse
:p :ROFLMAO: :p :ROFLMAO: 馃挬 馃挬 馃挬

117989



PPPS> Those 13 pound RS, my clueless no experience comment of 12-14 pounds,
based on scientific studies that do not exist as your claim,
have done age studies.
Red Snapper that are 13 pounds,
are probably between 5 - 9 YEARS of age.

Which is considered a young snapper, when they live 30-50 years.
Of course, you won't believe this, and think your fish are much older,
even though you have no idea how to actually determine the age of a fish.
 
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Discussion Starter #42
You're probably the guy who voted for Obamacare too and thinks that MSNBC and CNN are real news agencies. Done with your idiocy...go back to jerking yourself off and pretending you know something.
Did you vote against it?
I didn't vote on obamacare,
only people who got to vote was the house and senate.
But yes, blame obamacare on me,

I do thank trump for getting the tax cut for the 1% done
as his first priority in the first 2 years when the GOP controlled everything,
the party of the people, did the right thing for the minority of us 1%, thanks!!!!
I saved about 320k in taxes last year, thanks again, hope you did as well.

Oh, and wanting to repeal obamacare in Texas is a great idea,
why be involved with a NATIONAL health care plan, it can only suck,
after all, its the feds running it.
Just like not wanting Federal regulations for the energy industry,
which would have required cold weather protection in place,
to ultimately protect consumers,
and allow Texas to be part of the Federal Energy Grid,
which they are not.
Texas emergency energy partner is no US states,
their partner is MEXICO.

I think that worked out well for Texas,
in 2 short days,
you couldn't drink the water, had no electric or heat,
just like Mexico!!!!!!
No healthcare options next,
more like Mexico!!!!!!!!

Conservative approved animation, Dr. Suess
117990
 
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Discussion Starter #43
again...come try to catch a keeper in state water.
They're mostly non-existent and don't contribute squat to our quota..
.
I'll give you a dollar for each keeper state water red snapper you can catch between March and November in TX state waters.
I thought my friend photofishin and others like him
might find some useful pointers in these videos
on how to catch RS in TX state waters.
Others can do it, and with a little help,
so can you!!!!!!!!! :D:geek:

Not sure quad outboards are necessary, but they can't hurt


 

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I thought my friend photofishin and others like him
might find some useful pointers in these videos
on how to catch RS in TX state waters.
Others can do it, and with a little help,
so can you!!!!!!!!! :D:geek:

Not sure quad outboards are necessary, but they can't hurt


you're great with Google...now if you could only translate that to real world experience so you didn't seem like so much of a liberal troll
 

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Discussion Starter #45 (Edited)
you're great with Google...now if you could only translate that to real world experience so you didn't seem like so much of a liberal troll

 

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again, your own post confirms exactly what I've been saying all along. At least 3 times the number of snapper than previously shown. This proves my point that the Feds have been mismanaging this resource for years with little to no science to back up their power grabs. Red snapper are overabundant. So much so they're running other fish off of reefs. Places we used to be able to catch beeliners or triggers are overrun by red snapper. Forcing a minimal season with only two snapper per person is idiotic at best. The above is the perfect description for you. You don't live or fish anywhere in the gulf coast, you have NO experience fishing here yet you want to pontificate how we "should" do things. Maybe you should stick to New York rather than pretending you know what you're talking about.
 

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Discussion Starter #47
yet you want to pontificate how we "should" do things. Maybe you should stick to New York rather than pretending you know what you're talking about.
I would like to point out,
I AM NOT SUGGESTING HOW RS SHOULD BE MANAGED.

I AM EXPLAINING HOW THEY ARE MANAGED.

Not sure why you feel the need to attack the messenger,
but in doing so,
you are not getting the message(information)

Good news is,
you will probably be happy going forward,

as you will probably see no increases in quota,
thus giving you even more grievances,
which you seem to enjoy so much.
Be angry!
Biden, Obama and Pelosi are stealing your fish.


PS> NOAA is part of the DEPT. OF COMMERCE,
they are tasked with OPTIMIZING the value of fisheries,
which means making them sustainable and extracting
the MOST amount of fish possible, without harming the stock.
Fish are monetized through commercial and recreational activities,
more fish harvested, more economic activity, more taxes collected.
Leaving fish in the ocean, that could be harvested,
does NOT benefit the FED in any way economically.
 
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again, HOW they are managed is the issue that every recreational angler I know of has an issue with. The federal government simply has done a piss poor job at managing this resource, pretending that they're an endangered species when in fact they're overpopulated. Anyone who's ever dropped a line in the gulf for snapper will tell you the same thing. Still not certain why you insist on justifying calling me names/pretending you're a subject matter expert when in fact you don't live here and likely the only red snapper you see is on a plate at Red Lobster. Since 2006, our seasons have shrunk from 194 days down to 9 in 2014,10 in 2015, 11 in 2016 and a proposed 3 in 2017. Because of states managing their own resources, the count went up to 40 some days in 2018 and similar in 2019 and 2020. Commercial fishermen get 365 days. If the resource was endangered, I could understand short seasons however red snapper overpopulate reefs. The Feds have no basis for counting snapper...they just rely on fuzzy math. In Florida they have people at the docks who take surveys...but again, it's based off of a small sampling and in no way representative of weight caught for the season. You can Google all you want but it's clear that recreational anglers are getting screwed and have been for a long time.
 

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Discussion Starter #49
again, HOW they are managed is the issue that every recreational angler I know of has an issue with.
118032


PS> The RS served in Red Lobster, comes from Nicaragua,
last time I was in a RS was 25+ years ago, crap food.
Comms have individual quotas, that they use at their choosing
over the season, having a longer season, does not increase
how many fish they get to take, they still only get 49% of the pie.
If recs want a longer season with RS, then you can ask to
go to fish tags, each angler gets a couple and use them when you want.

PPS> NOAA does not label RS as endangered,
or even as overfished. Problem is not enough older
fish in the population, and only time will change that,
so prepare to complain for another 8 years or so.

PPPS> the feds cutting back the harvest years ago,
by shortening the season, is what helped bring the fish back
to where you consider them a nuisance, that is pretty good
result for such an incompetent agency in your view.
If they left the season as is years ago,
as you prefer, the population boom would have not happened,
and today, you would be complaining about how bad the fishery is,
instead of complaining there are too many fish and you cant take more.

PPPPS> states are still "in control" as you like this year,
what happens when the states don't increase the quota as you expect.
Who is at fault? The states are "in control" like you repeat,
why "things are better"
Who's fault is it when the states don't do as you expect? Hugo Chavez?
 

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Discussion Starter #50 (Edited)
Since 2006, our seasons have shrunk from 194 days down to 9 in 2014,10 in 2015, 11 in 2016 and a proposed 3 in 2017. Because of states managing their own resources, the count went up to 40 some days in 2018 and similar in 2019 and 2020.

118033


2006 The last of the "glory years" 194 days
Rec quota 4,470,000 pounds of RS

2020 The "mismanaged fed" year
Rec quota 7,350,000 pounds of RS
quota is UP by about 60% since the glory days.
What a complete and utter failure.
If only NOAA ran the rest of the government,
maybe we wouldn't be $30 trillion in debt.

WHY SHORTER SEASONS TODAY BUT WITH BIGGER QUOTAS?

One reason, those liberal californians moving into the state,
and others, texaans having babies, etc, called population growth,
more people on the water fishing.

Second reason, BIGGER FISH,
like those bruisers you were strong arming to show off,
a pair of teen size fish in early 2000's and you would have been a hero,
today that same pair are throw back for many.
So BIGGER AVERAGE SIZE FISH being harvested,
bigger fish (weight) means less fish are needed to use up the quota/poundage.

More people, bigger fish = short season and smaller bag limits,
even with a growing quota.

PS> maybe you should have asked trump to build a wall
around Texas, to keep everyone OUT! :)
 

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again...and I'm not sure why you can't figure this out...there is NO scientific data on the poundage caught by recreational anglers. It's just a wildass guess on NOAA's part. It'd be the same if I calculated deer harvested in NY by calculating the number of licenses by everyone who bought a license. Not everyone gets their limit and not everyone fishes every day of the season.
 

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I'm not a fisheries expert but I do catch fish in the GOM. My experience has been that the last 15 years of management has indeed reduced the number of fishing days but it has produced bigger fish meaning better sustainability of the resource. Some of the AR's I have put out and not fished for over 10 years are holding bragging rights sized fish as of last season and I expect it to be the same this year. I was put out but the restrictive bag limits when they first came out but I can go catch the logic behind it now. Some people want it all right now without thought for future generations and that's not right.
 

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Discussion Starter #53
again...and I'm not sure why you can't figure this out...there is NO scientific data on the poundage caught by recreational anglers. It's just a wildass guess on NOAA's part. It'd be the same if I calculated deer harvested in NY by calculating the number of licenses by everyone who bought a license. Not everyone gets their limit and not everyone fishes every day of the season.
Oh my, such a confused little boy.
The magnificent, wonderful and highly knowledgeable,
LOCAL state officials have been
DOING THE COUNTING OF REC RED SNAPPER HARVEST,

NOT THE FED.
EXACTLY AS YOU WANT.
And once again, you say its not accurate.

I can see you lack an understanding of any type of numbers or math.

If the state of Texas as a yearly quota of less than 30,000 RS
then how would it be possible for every angler to catch their limit
on every day of the season????????
That would equate to 15,000 total RS trips for the state of Texas,
obviously not the case,
and obviously not how the harvest is calculated either.
But don't let that stop you from believing what you want, despite reality.





Enjoy your unfulfilled life that is engorged with anger and disappointment,
all due to your ignorance.
Wonderful way to live, enjoy it all to the fullest,
a true winner for sure.
 

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I do not see in the data any results modifications for RS being hooked and released many times in their life. Some get smarter... and bigger. Me thinks some real big ass red snapper have been hooked and released for the last time and live on... they can pick your baited hook clean if they want... How do you quantify smarter fish in the schools that aren't caught any longer after years of catch and release because they got smarter...

Data skewed and assumes fish is stupid.... Bovine Strategy

D-C
 

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Discussion Starter #55 (Edited)
I do not see in the data any results modifications for RS being hooked and released many times in their life. Some get smarter... and bigger. Me thinks some real big ass red snapper have been hooked and released for the last time and live on... they can pick your baited hook clean if they want... How do you quantify smarter fish in the schools that aren't caught any longer after years of catch and release because they got smarter...
Data skewed and assumes fish is stupid.... Bovine Strategy
If they use sonar to count fish, does it matter if a fish has been hooked before,
hint, no, fish is counted either way.
If they use hydro acoustics to count fish, once again, fish is counted either way.
Same goes for when they use a ROV to visually count fish.

Would like to point out, a fish that has been hooked multiple times,
is NOT a smart fish, that is a dumb, but lucky fish, not many of those
in the ocean actually.
There is a 12% mortality from RS catch and release,
and that is a conservative number,
much higher for bigger fish in deeper water.
20-25lb RS in 150-200 feet, released, closer to 35+% mortality.

they can pick your baited hook clean if they want...
Maybe I can learn ya sumting.
Use CRABS for bait, not picking that clean without you feeling the bite,
and getting multiple chances to hook them.
Crabs are also favorite food for many bottom fish.

PS> why not just go with Dominion and Smartmatic
count the fish, easier, quicker, cleaner :) :)
Hey, did you hear, the crackhead pillow pusher says the messiah is
taking back over in August. I'm sure he'll fix things for ya this time around.

PPS> you also believe the feds want to keep fish in the ocean,
for their benefit somehow. Yet,receive no benefit from leaving fish in the ocean that should be harvested and they are tasked with doing the opposite, maximizing the catch/value of the fisheries they manage. Your continued conspiracies about inaccurate data, seem to ignore this very fact, feds benefit by harvesting more.
But, I guess when people believe politicians are harvesting organs
from children in pizza parlors, anything is possible.
 
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The data is based upon catch not visual or sonar, so your comments about other than physical catch are irrelevant... Dominion and smartmatic will get their dues... Feds only care about who or what lobby pays them. In Cali when we fought the MLPA's (and won) most people where shocked to see who sided with the fish huggers to shut down fishing... Japanese and Russians where at the top of the list, then came domestic Pork growers (Chinese), then came commercial fisherman... so don't hand out this BS about the fed caring about local fish counts... it the lobby money they care about... I lived it and fought and won the MLPA's here in Cali and saw for myself with my own Lying eyes who was funding the MLPA effort... and Grey Davis buckled when we exposed the corruption to the news...

Every week Operation "Not Forgotten" is turning up more and more children, God bless the US Marshalls...and major arrests are being made, and maxwell is singing like a canary... I really do not appreciate the flippant use of the pizza parlor comment, it shows a level of depravity below even your standards HJ. you should endeavor to remove the political slight of hand comments HJ, it really is unbecoming of you.

Come on HJ, PLEASE clean the act up a few notches, child sex trafficking is not even remotely funny and does not deserve your scornful attitude. Politicizing every aspect of our lives from football to fishing is getting old...

Please clean it up HJ

D-C

D-C
 

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Discussion Starter #57
The data is based upon catch not visual or sonar,
so your comments about other than physical catch are irrelevant...
Dude, please stop.

You have no idea what you are asking or even saying.

The Stock or BIOMASS data, how many fish in the ocean,
which is what you were asking about,
is done using sonar, hydro acoustics, visual using ROV and cameras.

The HARVEST DATA, i
s based on visual inspection of catch by agents
at the docks, phone surveys, or anglers logging their catch with state based systems.

Two different collection methods of data
for TWO different data SOURCES.
Which you proceed to confuse,
then label as irrelevant,
LMAO.

You really couldn't be more clueless in this,
really please stop.

Stick with your conspiracy stuff, mr woke 5%
------
------
Oh, and keep your liberal socialist California opinions to yourself,
since you lack any local knowledge, that is so important,
you thus know nothing, according to photofishin.
:)
 

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Discussion Starter #58
Feds only care about who or what lobby pays them.
In Cali when we fought the MLPA's (and won) .
Japanese and Russians
where at the top of the list, then came domestic Pork growers (Chinese), then came commercial fisherman...
Fisheries managers and NOAA officials DO NOT run for office
and thus do not accept donations,
so how exactly are all these lobbyist paying them off?

WOULD LOVE TO SEE SOME DOCUMENTATION ABOUT
THE RUSSIAN, CHINESE AND JAPANESE financial support
in this battle.

Any actual documents to prove this?, or was it something you
read on the internet in some fishing forum?

Correct me if I'm wrong,
California currently has 124 MLPA's in state waters,
which you/fishermen fought against having any,
and you consider ending up with
124 of them in CA as a "WIN"

OMG :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::LOL::rolleyes::rolleyes::ROFLMAO::LOL: "a win" RFLMAO
Yuge win for sure, big win, never get tired of that winning

PS> In NY we have a dozen MPA/MLPA in the state,
ALL of them in National Parks, NONE of them limit fishing.
A bit closer to the win side of the scale. #NY STRONG

It seems we have a slightly different viewpoint when it comes to winning,
why someone you consider a yuge winner,
is actually a yuge loser by our standards in NY.



PPS> was Venezuela involved too? Hugo Chavez was actually
alive when the MLPA thing was happening, we all know how he
liked to meddle in our election last year, maybe he had hand in the
MLPA fiasco too. 馃槣

PPPS> will be waiting on those documents showing foreign
influence/money in the MLPA.


PPPPS> 0.0001% - 1% - 5% we all thank you, for being you.


 

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I'm not a fisheries expert but I do catch fish in the GOM. My experience has been that the last 15 years of management has indeed reduced the number of fishing days but it has produced bigger fish meaning better sustainability of the resource. Some of the AR's I have put out and not fished for over 10 years are holding bragging rights sized fish as of last season and I expect it to be the same this year. I was put out but the restrictive bag limits when they first came out but I can go catch the logic behind it now. Some people want it all right now without thought for future generations and that's not right.
most recreational fishermen I know don't "want it all". They're conservationists and do follow the laws, however putting insane limits on a fish population that is not only thriving, but overpopulated is clearly just another power grab by an inane federal government. HJ will tell you to "follow the science", however if his science were true, there would be a scientific way to calculate the quota attained for recreational fishermen and not some random guess provided by a 17 year old red snapper census taker at the dock or an app that doesn't work half the time. HJ likes to pontificate and beat his chest as if he's some sort of SME. Typical liberal nonsense. They want to tell other states what to do on subjects that not only don't affect them, but where they have ZERO practical experience. There IS a balance...but I trust the state to better manage the resources than NOAA which can't even use scientific data to get a wind/wave report correct within 2 days. Trusting the feds is like trusting gas station sushi...unfortunately I think that's all that HJ eats. Using common sense and increasing fishing days and/or increasing the catch limit to 4-5 per person in the gulf is what we need. This will allow OTHER reef fish such as triggerfish, scamp, and vermillion to repopulate reefs they've been pushed off of by the masses of red snapper.
 

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Discussion Starter #60
most recreational fishermen I know don't "want it all".
They're conservationists
increasing fishing days and/or increasing the catch limit to 4-5 per person in the gulf is what we need.
118058



Like I've said from the beginning,
more, more, more, more, more
is the only answer for some.
 
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