Double Wrapping? Down Locking? Resin Cure?

Discussion in 'Rod Building' started by satkunas, Oct 15, 2009.

  1. satkunas

    satkunas Senior Member

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    Hello,

    I have two blanks to assembly a Tuna heavy rod, but I have some doubts !!! Can you help me?

    1-) I have heard somewhere about double wrapping. Assuming that I will use line size D, do I need to wrap twice uppon the guide to have a stronger fixture? Or just one wrap is enough? How many layers of resin on it

    2-) Should I place the reel seat downlocking or uplocking? I can see the same rod assembled down and up, what's is the correct position? Or this is the owner's option?

    3-) I'm using the Threadmaster High resin, but sometimes the resin doesn't cure completely, feels like the cure is about 95%. If I touch the pot with the left resin inside (after 24hs) seems that there's a epoxy grease layer on the top. Is this normal? Am I doing something wrong?

    I appreciate your help !!!
     
  2. saqa

    saqa Jonny TooBad

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    1 - I run two layers of wraps in size A thread on rods fishing more then 8kg of drag or so and two or sometimes even three very thin coats of finish. Zero problems to date with this. I will ocaisionaly use D on a very heavy rod if I am in a hurry but I find A gives nicer results

    2 - This is the anglers own preference. If youre hand is gong to fall in front of the reel stem when you are working lures and playing fish then go uplocking

    3 - use syringes and mix 6ml of each component and you will remove a lot of margin for error and get a perfect mix. Mix for atleast 2-3mins as well. It should bu fully touch dry in 24hrs so either your mix is not one to one or not mixed well.
     

  3. satkunas

    satkunas Senior Member

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    Thanks for the reply. Regarding mixing epoxy, I will try to increase the amount to reduce the error. I like also to mix the Threadmaster a little bit hot, it gets more thin and bubble free. I'm using a very small plastic cup, I will follow you suggestion Mad Marlin to avoid more failures and go with metal for mixture. I had good results with Threadmaster, but I also had very bad results, I don't know where I'm doing worng.

    Thanks for all
     
  4. satkunas

    satkunas Senior Member

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    It's raining a lot here in Brazil, I think humidity is killing me. I will try to use something to heat the room and remove the humidity.

    I will try just a light also to mix the resin. Do you think Threadmaster is the best or should I try another one? What I like in the threadmaster is the UV resistance and elasticity, there no crack or noise when bendind the rod, but in the other hand, it's very hard to work it.

    Thanks again
     
  5. d-a

    d-a Senior Member

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    206
    Thanks for the reply. Regarding mixing epoxy, I will try to increase the amount to reduce the error. I like also to mix the Threadmaster a little bit hot, it gets more thin and bubble free. I'm using a very small plastic cup, I will follow you suggestion Mad Marlin to avoid more failures and go with metal for mixture. I had good results with Threadmaster, but I also had very bad results, I don't know where I'm doing worng.

    Thanks for all

    mixing it hot, as in adding more harderner is why you are having a tacky feeling on your epoxy. That's the excess hardner that you wasted.

    Mix it in equal quanitys and you will be good

    d-a
     
  6. paul708

    paul708 Site Sponsor

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    mixing it hot, as in adding more harderner is why you are having a tacky feeling on your epoxy. That's the excess hardner that you wasted.

    Mix it in equal quanitys and you will be good

    d-a
    i dont think he means adding more hardner.??
    we mix the epoxy "slightly warm" meaning..slightly more than room temp,
    it mixes great and flows very well.

    i have used the bullard stuff.
    its nice.
    i did a marbling demo using that..
     
  7. elpescador

    elpescador Senior Member

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    Have the same problem with humidity sometimes , now i resin in a room with a dehumidifier and have no problems.
     
  8. d-a

    d-a Senior Member

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    206
    i dont think he means adding more hardner.??
    we mix the epoxy "slightly warm" meaning..slightly more than room temp,
    it mixes great and flows very well.

    i have used the bullard stuff.
    its nice.
    i did a marbling demo using that..


    Paul

    One of the common mistakes made with mixing clearcoat is not measuring out the 2 parts equally by volume.

    d-a
     
  9. paul708

    paul708 Site Sponsor

    4,184
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    Paul

    One of the common mistakes made with mixing clearcoat is not measuring out the 2 parts equally by volume.

    d-a
    yes,that is the biggest problem. we usually teach our student to mix a double batch. and they have less problems.
     
  10. mbg60

    mbg60 Member

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    Aloha. I live in Hawaii and the humidity never really affected the curing of Threadmaster, or any other epoxy for that matter.

    To cure your sticky epoxy, just put a lite coat over it from a new batch of epoxy and cure as normal. This will fix the problem. Hope this is of some help.
     
  11. Taz575

    Taz575 Senior Member

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    I use TM all of the time. I mix in the little plastic cups after heating the containers in a microwave and measuring out with syringes. I then transfer it to a shallow metal dish to let sit for a minute and blow bubbles out with a straw. Heating the epoxy makes it thinner, easier to mix and has less bubbles while mixing it, especially when it gets cold in New England!

    For the threads, I do a double wrap of D on my tuna and heavy sticks. Tuna jigging rods get a double layer as well, and a coat of epoxy. When the epoxy starts to set up, I will put another coat on the areas around the guide feet to give the finish more bulk on the guide feet themselves, but not around the whole guide and under/between the 2 frame legs. So it's basically a single coat on the whole area, and then a 2nd coat on top of the guide feet for depth.
     
  12. Capt Richie

    Capt Richie Site Sponsor

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    Warming the finish will reduce its pot life..I found that as long as the room your in is 70 degrees or warmer the finish is fine..I found its also important for the room to stay warm wile the finish drys..

    As for a mixing I use a the small plastic cups & the back of the flexcoat brush to mix...I also work out of the cup ... If you pour it into a metal dish of foil you reduce pot life again...I work slow & finish more than one rod at a time, so long pot life in important to me..
    I flame the wraps with a very low flame moving the flame fast..

    I use TM lite & or Aftcote Two coats on the guides ...two to three on the butt wraps...... Never have problems with bubbles with the lite mix....
     
  13. Capt Richie

    Capt Richie Site Sponsor

    2,894
    211
    Hello,

    I have two blanks to assembly a Tuna heavy rod, but I have some doubts !!! Can you help me?

    1-) I have heard somewhere about double wrapping. Assuming that I will use line size D, do I need to wrap twice uppon the guide to have a stronger fixture? Or just one wrap is enough? How many layers of resin on it

    2-) Should I place the reel seat downlocking or uplocking? I can see the same rod assembled down and up, what's is the correct position? Or this is the owner's option?

    3-) I'm using the Threadmaster High resin, but sometimes the resin doesn't cure completely, feels like the cure is about 95%. If I touch the pot with the left resin inside (after 24hs) seems that there's a epoxy grease layer on the top. Is this normal? Am I doing something wrong?

    I appreciate your help !!!

    Every rod builder does things a little different..No right or wrong, its what works best for you...On offshore rods I wrap both up & down the guides..The first coat of finish I go over the guide feet twice...I want to get the finish on all the threads & onto the blank the best I can...I also dont use cp so a get a good bond of thread, guide & finish........

    You should get Dale P Clemens book......The new Advanced Custom rod Building......
     
  14. Taz575

    Taz575 Senior Member

    1,334
    9
    My house is cold, so I need to heat the stuff up in the fall/winter/early spring so it isn't as thick. It gets a tad thicker than the Lite consistency so it makes leveling and soaking in nice and quick, and then sets up quickly. I only do 1 rod at a time with each batch I mix up, and haven't had a problem with the reduction in pot life!
     
  15. satkunas

    satkunas Senior Member

    128
    6
    Guys, first results today.

    1-) Have used a syringes and mixed 4ml each part of TM Lite (first time using the lite)
    2-) Mixed 3 minutes under a bulb of yellow light
    3-) Warm the room a little with a heat equipment, something around 25-28°C during the whole process and cure.

    Results:

    PERFECT FINISH, clear, well done, completely level, completely cured after 12hs only. I think the warm room acelerated the TD light cure and it's done only after 12hs. But I will let more 12hs to continue the work.
     
  16. satkunas

    satkunas Senior Member

    128
    6
    I use TM all of the time. I mix in the little plastic cups after heating the containers in a microwave and measuring out with syringes. I then transfer it to a shallow metal dish to let sit for a minute and blow bubbles out with a straw. Heating the epoxy makes it thinner, easier to mix and has less bubbles while mixing it, especially when it gets cold in New England!

    For the threads, I do a double wrap of D on my tuna and heavy sticks. Tuna jigging rods get a double layer as well, and a coat of epoxy. When the epoxy starts to set up, I will put another coat on the areas around the guide feet to give the finish more bulk on the guide feet themselves, but not around the whole guide and under/between the 2 frame legs. So it's basically a single coat on the whole area, and then a 2nd coat on top of the guide feet for depth.

    Taz, what sequence do you use for double wraps? Do you make the first wrap then resin, or do you make both wraps and then resin the first time? I like the big balls around the guides for heavy rods, seems they are more robust. I'will try the double wrap and doube finish like you said, just give me the direction regarding the sequence.

    Thanks
     
  17. saqa

    saqa Jonny TooBad

    1,406
    100
    sak Ill do fist the under wrap then coated so the foot of the guides are not in contact with the blank , them the double wraps & then @ least two coats of finish

    Satkunas, glad to hear you sorted it out. Stay with it and soon it'll become second nature mate
     
  18. satkunas

    satkunas Senior Member

    128
    6
    sak Ill do fist the under wrap then coated so the foot of the guides are not in contact with the blank , them the double wraps & then @ least two coats of finish

    Ok foget about the blank coating. Considering uppon the guide. You do 2 layers of size D thread then resin 2 times right?
    Is it really necessary 2 layers of D thread? I was thinking to do just 1 layer of size D thread and 2 or 3 layers of resin.

    Thanks for all
     
  19. paul708

    paul708 Site Sponsor

    4,184
    197
    Ok foget about the blank coating. Considering uppon the guide. You do 2 layers of size D thread then resin 2 times right?
    Is it really necessary 2 layers of D thread? I was thinking to do just 1 layer of size D thread and 2 or 3 layers of resin.

    Thanks for all
    The resin is to mostly protect the thread.

    The THREAD holds the guide on.

    you decide if its worth the trouble to use 2 layers of thread.
    most times..YES. but you dont have to.
     
  20. satkunas

    satkunas Senior Member

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    The Rod is a Black Devil 200 to fish Tuna in Panamá. What do you suggest?

    1 wrap or 2 wrap ?