Do-able double limits on Gulf AJ's

Discussion in '360 Degrees Lounge' started by xs_tackle, Dec 7, 2007.

  1. xs_tackle

    xs_tackle Senior Member

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    On a recent multi-day trip to the floaters on a Port A headboat, I had caught a nice AJ and was preparing to try for a second, when a deckhand told me (I assume the Captain asked him to tell me this) I was limited out because applicable rules did not allow me to possess more than the one day bag limit of one AJ. I did not have any way to check this at the time.

    Well, now I've checked the rules; and, in this case the crew was WRONG, and I missed out on some good AJ fishing. Gulf recreational bag and possession limits for federal waters are set by the rule at 50 CFR Sec. 622.39. It sets the daily bag limit of ONE fish for AJ's. But, the possession limit, which appears at Sec. 622.39(b)(2), allows an angler to possess up to TWO bag limits when 4 conditions are met: (1)The trip must be on a charter or headboat; (2) it must span 24 hrs or more; (3) there must be at least 2 licensed operators aboard; and, (4) each passenger must have been issued and have in possession a receipt issued on behalf of the vessel that verifies the length of the trip. Typically a 24+ hr trip out of Port A meets all those conditions (until someone throws his receipt away).

    In case you hear the federal recreational possession limit for Gulf AJ's on a charter or headboat is one fish only, you can politely ask the Captain to re-check the rules, because the rules say otherwise if the other 3 conditions of 50 CFR Sec. 622.39(b)(2) are met.
     
  2. Minnow

    Minnow Administrator

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    Thanks for the info.
     

  3. Ragman

    Ragman Moderator

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    Yes, thanks for the info Jep!

    Sorry to hear you missed out too.

    As I understood it on all of the multi-day trips that we've targeted AJ/Snap was the "two-day limit" which meant 2 AJ and 8 (but now 4) snapper.

    Maybe it was an over zealous DH?
     
  4. BretABaker

    BretABaker Guest

    a lot of times they say no double limits on ling - hadnt heard that one about AJ
     
  5. xs_tackle

    xs_tackle Senior Member

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    Yes, thanks for the info Jep! . . . Maybe it was an over zealous DH?

    Thanks. I think the crew were being cautious and were pre-occupied with other, larger problems. I just wanted to avoid a repeat for any of us.

    BTW, in an email I received today, the Gulf Fishery Mgt Council confirmed my reading of the regs, but were quick to point out that the doubled possession limit applied only to anglers on vessels under charter and to headboat operations, not to anglers on vessels in other service.


    Here's the GOMFMC's 12/7/07 response:
    The recreational daily bag limit for greater amberjack is one-fish per angler. Persons on qualified charter vessels or headboats (must have a federal permit and two captains, private vessels do not qualify) for trips in excess of 24 hours may posses two days bag limits. One-day bag limits apply on all other trips regardless of length.

    Charlene
     
  6. tngbmt

    tngbmt Senior Member

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    does a 24.001 hour charter have to run 24 hrs or can we cut short and still retain a double limit (2 captains & fed permit requirement met)?
     
  7. xs_tackle

    xs_tackle Senior Member

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    does a 24.001 hour charter have to run 24 hrs or can we cut short and still retain a double limit (2 captains & fed permit requirement met)?

    You should ask the Gulf Council.

    But, if the fishing trip itself occurred within a period of less than 24 hrs (departure to return), then the fishing occurred during an even shorter period. If caught and charged, you and the Capt (he's also responsible) might have a problem with claiming 2 daily bag limits without having fished on 2 diff days. Of course, you might argue that you caught one fish before midnight of one calendar day and caught the other a few hours later on the next calendar day. But there would be lots of witnesses and chances the Capt would already have plead out and testify for the prosecution. What's more, judges can smell lies (they've heard them all) and by the time you get to the arguing, your tail is already caught in the legal proce$$ and it's a crapshoot at best.
     
  8. Ragman

    Ragman Moderator

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    IMO, you'd be pushing the spirit of the regulation.

    The two-day limit reg enables the longer trips to retain a greater amount of fish with out having to return to port.

    If a charter were to get into a hot bite and fill a two-day limit and return within 24 hours, I'd say a GW would probably write you up because you had not been out more than a day. Just speculation though.
     
  9. xs_tackle

    xs_tackle Senior Member

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    . . . If a charter were to get into a hot bite and fill a two-day limit and return within 24 hours, I'd say a GW would probably write you up because you had not been out more than a day. Just speculation though.

    Tom,
    I think you're right.
     
  10. xs_tackle

    xs_tackle Senior Member

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    a lot of times they say no double limits on ling - hadnt heard that one about AJ

    Oddly enough, I expected to see but do not find any federal recreational bag or possession limits applicable to Gulf ling/cobia in the bag and possession limit rule at 50 CFR Sec. 622.39. Nor are there any equipment prohibitions for them in the special provisions of 50 CFR Sec. 622.41 They are included under the regulatory heading of "coastal migratory pelagic species;" but, still, I find no bag/possession limits for the Gulf.
     
  11. tngbmt

    tngbmt Senior Member

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    so if i pay for a 36hrs (have receipt) i have to stay offshore at least 24.001hrs to retain the 2nd AJs even if we could have caught both at one stop on 2 drops? i agree.
     
  12. xs_tackle

    xs_tackle Senior Member

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    so if i pay for a 36hrs (have receipt) i have to stay offshore at least 24.001hrs to retain the 2nd AJs even if we could have caught both at one stop on 2 drops? i agree.

    Welllll, theoretically, the AJ's weren't caught on the same calendar day, regardless of trip length. The longer the trip, the less likely it is that your AJ double draws attention. Here's another angle: suppose one or two anglers disposed of their receipts or couldn't find them. The rule seems to require all anglers both to have been issued and to possess their receipts. I doubt a GMO would worry about that--unless you got his/her dander up.

    As with so many activities subject to regulation, after a while, so much regulatory superstructure grows up, that you could spend more time on the regulations than the activity.