Crimping Parameters examined- Tests & results.

Discussion in 'Tackle and Rigging' started by DenisB, Feb 19, 2012.

  1. Locke N Load

    Locke N Load Wannabe Tuna Fisherman

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  2. MixedGreyBeard

    MixedGreyBeard Senior Member

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    I second the notion that it is impossible to use constant hand preassure time and time again. So I've chaulked that part up to "luck". But I would like your thoughts on using a thimble and if you think it would be better to solve the abrasion abrasion/friction that occurs against the eye of a swivel than the double pass loop or a flemish twist? My typical rigging is to crimp around a metal or nylon thimble that is threaded through the swivels eye. The thimble keeps friction off the line and stops keeps the loop from changing shape as force is applied by the fish.

    I don't have the tools or knowledge to do effective testing of the crimp itself thus. While I do believe in my terminal rigging technique there's no way I can be certain how strong my crimp is, or if I perhaps even degraded the connection by cinching the line too hard, or mal forming the crimp. I will try the Coppoer crimps though as it seems that copper would add a stronger component to the mix.
     

  3. marc77

    marc77 Junior member

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    MixedGreyBeard:

    Before you change your crimp joins, you may first try to determine where you are at with them. You may find that they are strong as is and any changes may be taking a step backwards. You really do not need any equipment to test them. Your tests are to determine whether they are strong and it is not necessary to establish a precise pounds of pull breaking strength.

    To test them, simply make a couple of connections onto two barrel swivels. Then pull the swivels apart and break the line. (Like I did in the short video that I posted. If you are using heavy line, break it by pulling with a car jack or some other device.) If the line breaks away from the crimps, you are all set. You do not need to make any adjustments. Just make the joins the same way every time.

    Assuming that the crimps you are using have the smallest hole in which the line fits; i.e. the line goes in nice and snug. And that you are compressing the entire length of the crimp and leaving a flare out on the running line end (or both ends).

    If the line slips inside the crimps, then you need to compress them a bit more. To do so, if you have a crimping tool that has an adjustment screw, adjust the screw in small increments and re-test. If your crimping tool does not have an adjustment screw, then you need to make sure that you are squeezing the handles all the way so that they bottom out. If that does not work, then you need to use a smaller crimper hole. Get another crimper with a smaller hole or re-bore one.

    If the line breaks where it enters the crimp or inside the crimp, then you need less compression. Adjust the crimper screw or use a slightly larger hole.

    You fiddle around with this until the line breaks away from the crimps. At which point you do not want to make any further changes.

    With regard to copper crimps, I only use them on wire cable for making shark leaders. I do not use them for mono or fluorocarbon. I do not believe that copper crimps are as good as aluminum crimps for mono. However, I have very little to no experience with them in that application. Maybe someone else that uses them on mono can give more information in that regard.

    As I stated previously, I do not use chafing gear. Therefore, I will not respond to your specific questions in that regard.

    Good luck.
     
  4. MixedGreyBeard

    MixedGreyBeard Senior Member

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    MixedGreyBeard:

    Before you change your crimp joins, you may first try to determine where you are at with them. You may find that they are strong as is and any changes may be taking a step backwards. You really do not need any equipment to test them. Your tests are to determine whether they are strong and it is not necessary to establish a precise pounds of pull breaking strength.

    To test them, simply make a couple of connections onto two barrel swivels. Then pull the swivels apart and break the line. (Like I did in the short video that I posted. If you are using heavy line, break it by pulling with a car jack or some other device.) If the line breaks away from the crimps, you are all set. You do not need to make any adjustments. Just make the joins the same way every time.

    Assuming that the crimps you are using have the smallest hole in which the line fits; i.e. the line goes in nice and snug. And that you are compressing the entire length of the crimp and leaving a flare out on the running line end (or both ends).

    If the line slips inside the crimps, then you need to compress them a bit more. To do so, if you have a crimping tool that has an adjustment screw, adjust the screw in small increments and re-test. If your crimping tool does not have an adjustment screw, then you need to make sure that your are squeezing the handles all the way so that they bottom out. If that does not work, then you need to use a smaller crimper hole. Get another crimper with a smaller hole or re-bore one.

    If the line breaks where it enters the crimp or inside the crimp, then you need less compression. Adjust the crimper screw or use a slightly larger hole.

    You fiddle around with this until the line breaks away from the crimps. At which point you do not want to make any further changes.

    With regard to copper crimps, I only use them on wire cable for making shark leaders. I do not use them for mono or fluorocarbon. I do not believe that copper crimps are as good as aluminum crimps for mono. However, I have very little to no experience with them in that application. Maybe someone else that uses them on mono can give more information in that regard.

    As I stated previously, I do not use chafing gear. Therefore, I will not respond to your specific questions in that regard.

    Good luck.

    THANKS!!! I've got some testing to do. Apreciate the video and simple method.
     
    BrianHouston likes this.
  5. marc77

    marc77 Junior member

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    MixedGreyBeard:


    When you test your crimp connections, make sure that you wear SAFETY GOGGLES so that you do not get hit in the eye with a crimp or piece of line.
     
  6. DenisB

    DenisB Senior Member

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    MGB my friend
    the following is not FWIW........... its the full dollar.

    " copper is for crimping wire leaders........aluminium is for crimping mono/fluoro leaders"
    ( as posted in other threads)

    There's a whole bunch of reasons..............
    the summary is:-
    -The precision required for copper is even higher than for aluminium
    - the strength penalty you pay for minor crimping errors is much higher for copper than for aluminium/
    ie copper crimps tend to either slip or crush the line MUCH more frequently than you get it right.
    - the strength of a crimp in mono/fluoro is not determined by the strength or durability of the crimp sleeve .........its determined by the strength & elasticity of the mono/fluoro.
    - best crimping results ( consistent & reliable) are achieved by using a crimp sleeve made from a material with the same compression strength or slightly more ductile than the material being crimped . This is not achievable in a metal crimp used on mono/fluoro............the appropriate compromise with the least risk is the softest metal that has the least difference in compression strength to mono/fluoro.
    ................Aluminium crimp sleeves are made from the softest aluminium for that reason.

    99c/$
     
  7. pametfisher

    pametfisher Senior Member

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    Excellent, excellent, excellent!
     
  8. OzAssAssin

    OzAssAssin Junior member

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    Good reading very informative thanks for your time posting
     
  9. Fishinmad

    Fishinmad Member

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    This is a great thread, especially for some one like me who is really inexperienced when it comes to rigging (as some of you may have guessed from some of my posts on other threads....)
    BTW, sorry for asking what I'm sure look like dumb questions, but as a London UK based angler I don't get many opportunities to fish blue-water for big fish - I'm very much a learner.
    I've only recently got into the art/science of rigging and am trying to get geared up for the job.
    I recently ordered a set of Braid Power Crimpers, the kind with the built-in ratchet.
    Now I know some people don't think they're perfect but surely if I'm rigging 250lb BS mono (Momoi) with crimps from the same maker, the ratchet tool takes some of the guess work out for me with regards to applied pressure on the crimp?
    That, and how bad is it to lose a couple of percent of the line rating at 250lb?
    I'll likely be fishing for big-eye or yellowfin at best, not marlin or BFT, so I don't think I'll be pushing my kit to the absolute limits.
    Am I thinking correctly or getting blase early/showing my naivete?
     
    BrianHouston likes this.
  10. DenisB

    DenisB Senior Member

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    Unfortunately the ratchet system does not guarantee the correct crimping pressure for the various combinations of line diameter & crimp ID & OD the tool could be used with (even sticking within the manufacturers equipment ) . The ratchet system provides reliability & repeatability of the crimper crush in successive constructions , but does not guarantee that its the right crush for the job in hand.

    A crimper with adjustment screw to limit crimp crush is highly desirable to provide reliable repeatability to successive constructions. at the right crimper crush for the job at hand ( once its tuned ).

    Strength differences vary dramatically with small variations around the optimal.
    Assume nothing.................proof test your constructions ..................that way you are risk averse.

    In theory a few percent of 250# is not too bad.....................the question is ............is it only a couple of percent in practice.
    Evidence strongly suggests it can easily be a lot more than a mere couple of percent.
    Low duty load or not you need to be confident that your constructions have a sensible safety margin in strength above your intended duty load & that they can withstand longish load application time & repetitive cyclic loading ( as generated by pump & wind loads fighting fish for some time).

    No harm in the question.....................proof test your constructions & remove any doubt

    Good luck & tight lines when you get on the water.
     
  11. Fishinmad

    Fishinmad Member

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    Thanks Denis
    I'm rapidly getting the impression that there's as much to this rigging lark as there is to reloading rifle cartridges.........
    ATB
    T
     
  12. flyguy

    flyguy Senior Member

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    Double pass loop with single flemish twist = pass line through swivel twice, pass line through both loops (like a overhand knot) then back through crimp?
     
  13. DenisB

    DenisB Senior Member

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    Yep
    The second pass thru the swivel twists around the first loop on the way thru , then tag goes back thru the crimp.
     
  14. flyguy

    flyguy Senior Member

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    Oh..just go thru the first loop on second pass? Anyone know of a video? Not having much luck.
     
  15. DenisB

    DenisB Senior Member

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    Here you go

    http://www.marinews.com/knots/bait-presentation/bait-and-ringing-knots/game-fishing-rigs/how-to-tie-flemish-eye-fishing-knot/3/1/28/261/

    that vid is showing a double pass loop with 2 flemish twists.( as commonly used in wire rigs, )

    The easiest way to do them is by making the first loop big, doing the twist around the first pass after you have passed thru the hook eye the second time & then pulling it down when you have the twist completed.

    the eye you are doing this on must be big enough to allow the hook/swivel/etc to swing freely on the flemish loop as you pull it down.
     
  16. flyguy

    flyguy Senior Member

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    Great! Thanks Denis!
     
  17. Rm1668Tuna

    Rm1668Tuna Member

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    Does anyone have any tips or recommendations for terminal tackle for bluefin tuna ?