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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
One of the factors in putting together an "unbreakable" (I use that word figuratively) line system to be used for BFTs from Center Consoles, is the drag that can be expected from the boat.

My boat's out of the water for the season and I've only got some rough numbers but I'm wondering, at the speed that a Bluefin might be able to pull a Center Console boat, what is the boat's drag? I like to get some numbers when the boat is pulled from the bow, pulled from the stern, and pulled sideways. I've noticed that even very large fish only get the boat going a few knots. It would be great to get as much experiential or actual data as possible.

If a guy in a kayak can take a 150 lb. fish single-handed, a guy in a Center Console should be able to take a Giant solo too. I drop the gauntlet!
 

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One of the factors in putting together an "unbreakable" (I use that word figuratively) line system to be used for BFTs from Center Consoles, is the drag that can be expected from the boat.

My boat's out of the water for the season and I've only got some rough numbers but I'm wondering, at the speed that a Bluefin might be able to pull a Center Console boat, what is the boat's drag? I like to get some numbers when the boat is pulled from the bow, pulled from the stern, and pulled sideways. I've noticed that even very large fish only get the boat going a few knots. It would be great to get as much experiential or actual data as possible.

If a guy in a kayak can take a 150 lb. fish single-handed, a guy in a Center Console should be able to take a Giant solo too. I drop the gauntlet!


a famous giant catcher was billy car from Ri he caught lots and lots and lots of giants it can be done!!
 

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Makes me think of the story I heard in August.
We were coming in and a comm was behind us. My buddies knew him so he called us over. 800#, 110" lying on the deck. The captain said he harpooned the fish near the tail. He hit the switch to electrocute it and nothing happened except the fish got pissed off. He hit him again and same result. So for the next two hours the tuna dragged the 36' stick boat around CCB before it finally died. The boat weighs what 15k pounds atleast? That is a lot of drag.

I still think a small tuna would pull a kayak around forever. Your only hope is to reel yourself to him and get a gaff in. Now a center console is a different story, but I bet a giant could pull it around for a looooooong time. Interesting topic.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
And I mean on light tackle with spinning reels! And remember, you can use the engine to add drag to whatever your line, rod, reel, you ... can handle.
 

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And I mean on light tackle with spinning reels!


gotcha and yea that would be fun.... didnt someone oh here do it with a conv setup?
 

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In the vein of Rogers thread I can contribute the following practical data.

Commercially fishing tuna patches ( yellowfin 100 - 150# ) we developed a bubble fishing technique as we could not catch fish on standup gear fast enough ( hey its commercial .....OK ) So we shifted to handlining with a bubble attached to 5 mm polyester braid thence a swivel and a heavy mono trace and a thick tunalongline hook.
bait the fish, sink the hook & let the bubble rip over the side
, bait another hook & setup & hook another & let them tow the bubbles around till they go into oxygen debt & tire themselves so they are easy to get on board.
6 bubbles in the water at any one time , all unattached to the boat ( once we had the gear functioning properly).
Now a hookup at the start went like this
250# mono trace , 12" dia foam bubble
- hookup & the bubble disappears into the briney out of sight & then quickly pops back to the surface.
250# mono busted .
1/16" 49 strand wire trace , 12" foam bubble
- hookup & the bubble disappears into the briney out of sight, for a long long time to the point where we think its lost, then it pops up , but its the size of an >8" bubble & the fish is still very lively & pulls the bubble under for significant periods of time repeatedly.
finally we get the fish ............the bubble has been so deep it was crushed .
it takes about 100- 140 FM to crush those bubbles.
Switch to heavy wall polyethelene moulded bubbles rated to 400FM.
( trawl net bubbles & Japanese tunalongline bubbles)

300# mono trace , 12" bubble
hook up , splash , ping under the water .

350 # mono trace
50% ping, 50% fish attached.
1/16" wire trace catching fish no worries , but hookups harder to achieve
( leader shy )
400# mono trace
very very few lost fish and it takes 5-7 min for the bubble to reappear with a dog tired yellowfin 100-150# that has absolutely thrown in the towel & is in massive oxygen debt.

The conclusion is that a Yellowfin ( substitute generic tuna species ) can pull a 12" bubble under the water at sufficient speed to generate approx 350# of drag.
estimated speed required to do this approx 30 MPH.

Observations on the sonar indicated that these fish were mostly taking the bubble to the bottom pretty directly in 150 FM of water ( 300 yds ).
conclusion is that a 100-150# can generate energy at 350# of drag for 300M when they panic enough.and then struggle to resist the floatation of a 12" bubble for more than about 5 min.
( someone else can calc what the line tension is from a 12" bubble. ( figure that at about 11" dia allowing for the heavy plastic walls of the bubble )
now you have an idea of the energy output of a fish that size over that time.
You can estimate bigger fish sizes and lesser drag with funfishing gear and the potential energy equation.

The drag equation of a boat ( CC) is one heck of a lot more than a 12" bubble in water resistance.

The question becomes...............does bow forward or side on become a contributing factor in fighting the fish.
methinks it contributes little to the fight one way or the other if the fish wants to run ..............at the line sizes in use and the energy capability and speed capability of the tuna you are reliant on your reel drag to mitigate any difference in boat drag and energy output from the fish.

The real question methinks is what speed does the boat reach pulled from the bow before your 60# hollow or solid breaks, ditto from the side midships.

Given that we are using our line with a safety margin of about 2 to 3 to one & we can't put out much more than that as an angler ( standup) for too long
What speed does the boat reach towed from the bow & midships before 20# or 30# line breaks............relative to potential fish speed.
Then you know what beneficial contribution fighting the fish from the bow or midships makes to the conduct of the fight.
methinks it has little influence at all.
I would like to see the differential GPS figures for 20# and 30# & 60# for bow on boat towing & sideways boat towing.
( forget STD GPS figures ..........too much error ).

Who is going to pick up Roger's Gauntlet & post up some boat towing data.

He He He.
 

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it really amaze me how the whole Nor-east look at the Blue fin tuna fishery nowadays,
3 years ago people where laughing at us when we show up at the ramp with spinning gear, not anymore:)
and the nicest part that most anglers start to fell confident on landing those fish solo:D , i am sure we will see more solo fish by next year
it is great to see many Anglers from different parts of the state and the world joining the club
 

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it really amaze me how the whole Nor-east look at the Blue fin tuna fishery nowadays,
3 years ago people where laughing at us when we show up at the ramp with spinning gear, not anymore:)
and the nicest part that most anglers start to fell confident on landing those fish solo:D , i am sure we will see more solo fish by next year
it is great to see many Anglers from different parts of the state and the world joining the club

Some of us need to hit the gym more often!!
 

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I dont think time was an issue on sub 200 pound fish, mots of those fish I would gather were landed in less than 30 minutes which is very respectable on spinning gear. Fish over the 200 pound range and the occasional demon fish are another story
 

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In all honesty I believe the bigger and more detailed debate becomes this

Fight from a dead boat versus a moving boat or a semi moving boat? Captains vary I would love to hear what some captains thoughts are?

From an anglers perspective my goal is to land the fish stand up, end of story in short time. I dont spend my money to fight fish I want to land them and release them or land them and harvest them

Dead boat versus moving boat. I like a semi moving boat. I don't want the captain to chase a fish unless Im very very low on line but personally I do like being positioned in the bow to fight the fish and will ask the captain to spin the boat when necessary to stay away from running around the boat and engines to much.

Thats my fighting strategy, If I can stay in the bow I feel I can maximize my chances to land that fish, using heavy drag and the boats resistance those fish will tire and come up. I realize fighting it from the mid ship creates more resistance and drag but .... using the risk versus reward theory here I would rather less resistance in bow and be safe than more resistance on midship and deal with engines and running gear. Too many times lines get wrapped around props or angles change and hooks pop. Plus its tires you out running around a cc with heavy drag. Once again the goal is to land the fish

Thats my 2 cents
 

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it really amaze me how the whole Nor-east look at the Blue fin tuna fishery nowadays,
3 years ago people where laughing at us when we show up at the ramp with spinning gear, not anymore:)
and the nicest part that most anglers start to fell confident on landing those fish solo:D , i am sure we will see more solo fish by next year
it is great to see many Anglers from different parts of the state and the world joining the club

Sami I remember the guys chuckling when we were boarding Riches boat that first season LOL
 

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Sami I remember the guys chuckling when we were boarding Riches boat that first season LOL

We got the same responses here in NJ as well. I can remember being the only boat drifting with jigs only and the big boats laughing at us doing this strange thing (jigging) on our cc. One day we heard on the radio that there was a bunch of kids jigging but they are all hooked up on tuna. "what are they doing!!" Now you go out and just about every boat is jigging and chunking or even just jigging. Its come a long way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
There are lots of ways to land large fish--witness the guy in the kayak this year making the New York Times with, what was it, a 150 lb. fish?

I'm not talking about technique yet. I want to know, before one counters with the motor, what is the drag profile of a boat under 27' (approx.) when towed by a tuna?

As an interesting anecdote, I see a lot of fish run for a while, pulling line off anglers' rods. Then after 100 to 200 yards, the fish stops taking line. What are the fish doing, taking a rest? Not likely, they have to swim to take up oxygen.

Here's a thought. The drag starts at 20 lbs. the fish runs for 200 yards. The reel's drag is now at, say, 30 lbs. If the boat's drag was equal to 30 lbs. (in a certain configuration and speed), then the fish would pull the boat, no line would be taken from the reel. (I've experimented so I'm ahead of the game here.) One way to add drag is put the boat in reverse (tried it also), a little tricky solo but it works and you can keep the pressure high.

Another observation: when anglers are close to getting spooled in my boat (22' CC), I know their drag pressure is low, no matter what they tell me. More to come.

Who has some boat drag data? Can someone put a scale on a Center Console and pull it forward at 1 knots, 2 knots, 3 knots, etc?
 

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Another observation: when anglers are close to getting spooled in my boat (22' CC), I know their drag pressure is low, no matter what they tell me. More to come.


Only once in my fishing career was I even close to being spooled by any fish and it was this year with Trav (jig4tuna) in a matter of 20 seconds my spool was really really almost at brass low. We were jigging the fish hit right off bottom and never stopped even for a second. I had at least 18 pounds of initial drag and made a rookie mistake by trying to stop it and I popped my leader at the connection.

The only reason I tried to stop it by palming and increasing drag is because we as a group were all jigging and not ready to chase. Three guys had jigs in the water and by the time we figured it out I had over 300 yards of line off my reel and I felt if I didnt slow it I would be completely spooled by the time we were running. The same day several 300#ers were caught in the same area. I believe it was a huge fish as I never encountered that before anywhere

My reel was absolutely smoking HOT afterwards
 

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Spinal Rods
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Only once in my fishing career was I even close to being spooled by any fish and it was this year with Trav (jig4tuna) in a matter of 20 seconds my spool was really really almost at brass low. We were jigging the fish hit right off bottom and never stopped even for a second. I had at least 18 pounds of initial drag and made a rookie mistake by trying to stop it and I popped my leader at the connection.

The only reason I tried to stop it by palming and increasing drag is because we as a group were all jigging and not ready to chase. Three guys had jigs in the water and by the time we figured it out I had over 300 yards of line off my reel and I felt if I didnt slow it I would be completely spooled by the time we were running. The same day several 300#ers were caught in the same area. I believe it was a huge fish as I never encountered that before anywhere

My reel was absolutely smoking HOT afterwards

I'll never forget that fish and I hang my head in shame for not being ready, but in defense I never saw that happen in those areas before. That was definately not a "schoolie" it was a freight train.
 

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In my opinion you cannot catch A giant tuna jigging or popping unless your Super man and super lucky.I dont know many people that can land A true giant on 80lb tackle unless if you are very skillful.The plan is to go with the right tackle and that is A 130!:eek: I come on to A jigging forum and spew my opinion and it's just that but we arent targeting giants but just medium's.And that is all you will catch on jigging type tackle and it is as simple as that.:)

Boat drag is A complex issue as you have ocean currents and wind involved so I cant say that you can or cant involve the boat drag in the equation,But I do agree with what GMAN states if you dont have A fish spooling you dont run the fish down with the boat.What I prefer is if we have something major on the line if be A shark,sword or tuna that we reverse the boat and fight the fish from the bow if the angler is to tired this puts the neccesary pressure on the fish to wear the fish out with little to no wear on the angler.:)
 

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I'll never forget that fish and I hang my head in shame for not being ready, but in defense I never saw that happen in those areas before. That was definately not a "schoolie" it was a freight train.


The current DE state record BFT was caught on the boat capt.IKE some years back in just that very area while shark fishing in the middle of the night.So you cant always assume that those fish will not be out there.:)
 

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I've landed more than my share of TRUE GIANTS...Fish over 500# out of a CC. This last fish I caught this past Saturday was 90" round weight between 425-450# this fish took everything we had on 80 class gear to get him to come up and we were just in 60' of water, straight up and down for 20min..I needed to use the boat to stretch the fish out just so I can get a shot with the dart...

Now, not to take anything away from the guys that want to fight these fish with light jigging and popping tackle but I just don't think the rods have the lifting power to move these bigger BFT, 400# plus..now Im the ultimate optimist and believe anything is possible but dealing with these bigger Bluefins is a totally diffrent ball game than the smaller fish in the 100# to 300# range..I'd love to see it done but I just don't think the tackle can handle a True Giant..
 

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I've landed more than my share of TRUE GIANTS...Fish over 500# out of a CC. This last fish I caught this past Saturday was 90" round weight between 425-450# this fish took everything we had on 80 class gear to get him to come up and we were just in 60' of water, straight up and down for 20min..I needed to use the boat to stretch the fish out just so I can get a shot with the dart...

Now, not to take anything away for the guys that want to fight these fish with light jigging and popping tackle but I just don't think the rods have the lifting power to move these bigger BFT, 400# plus..now Im the ultimate optimist and believe anything is possible but dealing with these bigger Bluefins is a totally diffrent ball game than the smaller fish in the 100# to 300# range..I'd love to see it done but I just don't think the tackle can handle a True Giant..


I couldent agree with you more!:)
 
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