Butterfly jigging rods not welcomed on a long range boat ?

Discussion in 'Tackle and Rigging' started by ksong, Oct 30, 2006.

  1. Deep_Sea_Gull

    Deep_Sea_Gull Lifetime Supporting Members

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    I believe in the correct tool for the job at hand. I will not fish a too wimpy rod for more than one fish. I try to not carry a knife to gun fights.
    I think that there are occasions where an angler needs to find a different boat.
     

  2. Uncle Russ

    Uncle Russ Senior Member

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    Seagull and Kil: Should I conclude this is not the time or place to broach the subject of taking my 12 weight Winston BL5 with 20 pound leader and 8 inch clousers onto the Big E and standing between you two?

    Russ
     
  3. ksong

    ksong SPONSOR

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    Seagull and Kil: Should I conclude this is not the time or place to broach the subject of taking my 12 weight Winston BL5 with 20 pound leader and 8 inch clousers onto the Big E and standing between you two?

    Russ
    No, you are wrong because I walk away without saying anything. :)
    In my opinion, Shimano shouldn't have advertised the Trevala rod's line rating is upto 200 lbs. It misled fishermen that the rod can handle a 200 lbs fish. :) Also it doesn't help when some captains sponsored by Shimano praised the rods blindly.
     
  4. Deep_Sea_Gull

    Deep_Sea_Gull Lifetime Supporting Members

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    LOL Uncle Russ.

    I am with Kil. I would probably go take a seat with a cold drink and watch.

    I did not mean that the angler should leave the boat I'm riding. I mean that he should find a like minded group to fish with in a better suited environment.

    Snagged has posted his opinion on the jigging rods being over rated. I trust his judgement.
     
  5. Uncle Russ

    Uncle Russ Senior Member

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    LOL, indeed! :) Actually, Kil is being really nice by not pointing out that I am the guy who asked him in a PM if it were really true that spinners could not be used on the rail. He very politely pointed out that with spinners the line is under the reel and would be trapped against the rail. Well, I have only been using spinning reels since about 1957 or so, and you would think in 50 years I might have noticed that. :)

    I wondered about the "200" rating myself when looking at those rods in the catalog. Which raises the question: When Calstar posts a line rating of say, 50-130 but a "recommendation" of 50-100, what is the meaning of that? Is it a safety factor? I don't think they are talking about the size of the fish.

    What would folks on this thread consider the minimum rod for subduing GOM tuna in timely fashion? It looks like I am going to end up with an arsenal consisting of: roller: 7465H and 760H; conventional: 700H; and spinner: 700H and 700XH. Clearly, from what I have read and learned from you folks, all of these will fit the bill. But how about the 800H or 850H I am considering having Kevin build me for heavy jetty casting? Would either of these make an adequate rod in your opinions for a party boat situation? (Kil and Kevin have pointed out the degree to which longer rods can be tough on you in the harness). Should I arm myself with a 6 1/2 or 7 foot medium rod for lighter casting and if so, what would the minimum blank to avoid the same kind of trouble experienced by the guys with the Trevalas?

    Anyway, the good news is that if you guys find me between you on the Big E, I agree with you on the principle that everyone should have a like-minded idea of the mission and means of accomplishment, so I won't be catching you in the earlobe with a clouser. The bad news may be the length of time it takes me to bring in my first 15 pound blackfin on a 50W. :) If we ever are on the same boat, I will state in advance, I have no pride and take all advice.

    Russ
     
  6. Anglers Pro Shop

    Anglers Pro Shop Member

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    Trevallas are indeed overated, I still have not seen a spinning rod that will handle 200lb line! not to mention the guides designed for spinning rods.

    I am quite sure the blokes using the rods doubled the trouble with not so "up to it" reels, nothing less than a Saltiga or Stella will suffice (in the long term) for any swimming creature more than 100lb. I had a customer who went with me to Venice who insisted on using his 9500SS, with 80lb braid on a 40+lb AJ, he told me he squeezed the drag knob till it won't turn anymore and almost blistered his finger turning it.. and line still peels!

    What is the ideal rod for popping? I can tell you, till today I still find Jap popping rod are far superior. Of course many would say I've caught tuna not with a Jap rod but I am talking about ideal... Some factors I will consider is weight of the rod and the next is lure/rod action suitability followed by castability, etc. With a light weight rod, casting will be easier and thus for longer duration. With a suitable lure/rod combination, you can get the best out of a lure's action. i.e. I prefer stiffer rod for working cup faced chuggers and slightly softer tip for working pencil poppers and swimbaits.

    To know whats best is to go out and practise and experiment; casting with different rod/lure combination, you will be surprised what you'll learn; casting distance, lure action (why my popper won't pop and splash? coz your rod tip is too soft! How come my pencil popper won't skip like flying fish?) and how many cast before you get tired. Nothing beats practise, practise and more practise, there is only so much words can say.

    I still cannot get over the Big E trip being cancelled, was hoping to get on when I was on waitlist and the good news came, and lasted only 3 days!


    Randy
     
  7. txseadog

    txseadog Moderator

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    It looks like I am going to end up with an arsenal consisting of: roller: 7465H and 760H; conventional: 700H; and spinner: 700H and 700XH.
    Russ

    I think a 700H is a solid 50# stick and a 700xh is going to be rough on the angler if fished at 20#+ of drag.
     
  8. Uncle Russ

    Uncle Russ Senior Member

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    Thanks, Kevin. I have not yet bought a 700XH, either for the spinner or for the 665 jigging rod, so this does bear some consideration. I think I was impressed by "...brutal fish-lifting power." That sounds awfully good! Of course, what I may be forgetting is that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction--and the poor fisherman has to be the brute to do the lifting. :)

    My thinking is influenced also by the fact that I have the Twinspin 30 spooled up with 65 on on one spool, and 80 on the other. I guess I would be OK with the 65 on a rod rated for 50, but I was thinking if I want to fish 80, I should do so with a stouter rod. I would also like to have a backup rod for the big spinner in case I broke the 700H.

    As you know, I am thinking about having the first rod you build for me for the Twinspin 12, done on the 850H blank--not because I think that would be a great tuna rod, but more because I want a rod capable of "surf-type" casting from the jetties to put the hurt on bull reds and jackfish in heavy current--either that or the 800M or H. So I was thinking of the 700XH as a good backup rod for both. What would you recommend as an alternative that would be more humane to a 61 year old body? :)

    Also, I was thinking about a 700XH for the 665HXC. I guess the 700H I already have might be better for that (jigging) application as well?

    All in all, I was looking at:

    (Items already owned are in bold) Intended primary usage (there would of course, be overlap) are in italics.

    Rig # 1::50W/130/760Hand maybe a 7465H rail rod as well. Usage: Trolling/Deep Drop/Chunking. (However, the 760H arrived tonight and it has a 16 inch upper handle, so it might be OK on the rail as well.

    Rig # 2:: 665/80/700H and possibly 700XH or other alternative? Usage: Jigging

    Rig # 3: TS30/80 & 65/700H spinner and possibly 700XH or other alternative? Usage: Casting poppers to big tuna/Live Bait rod

    Rig # 4: TS12/50 & 30/850H and/or 800M or 700M Usage: Light casting and Making Bait)

    Update: Just read Mr. Bill's post on the Seeker rods. That might be the answer as a primary rod for the TS 30.

    I am, as always appreciative of any and all advice from you as well as everyone else on this board. Thanks.

    Russ
     
  9. txseadog

    txseadog Moderator

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    I would also like to have a backup rod for the big spinner in case I broke the 700H.
    Russ

    I would be very surprise if you broke a graphiter blank within a actual and reasonable fishing application -- not trying to lift a anvil with it strapped to a forklift :). All kidding aside, I have never seen any reports of a 700h breaking while being fished. I'm not saying it hasn't happened, just that it is very, very rare.

    Also, with 50# gear (17-20# of drag) you can apply a lot of pressure on a fish (it also can be a lot work on the angler if they don't have good techique). I would suggest you lift a couple of gallons of water in bucket with your 700h and trying holding for 5-10 minutes or so before using a heavier rated rod that is 7' length. Most people find it is more comfortable to use 6.5' or shorter rods for 60# line and up.
     
  10. Deep_Sea_Gull

    Deep_Sea_Gull Lifetime Supporting Members

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    Good idea txseadog. One gallon of water weighs 8.34 lbs
     
  11. Uncle Russ

    Uncle Russ Senior Member

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    Gotcha, Dog and Gull. Since you put it that way, I know how hard it is to lift two gallons of water out of the back of my pickup without the water having a 7 foot lever to work on me. Thanks.

    Russ