Blanks- 101

Discussion in 'Rods and Rod Blanks' started by VaRandy, Jun 4, 2008.

  1. VaRandy

    VaRandy Site Sponsor

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    Have been doing what research I can do about heavy jigging sticks. OTI apparantly is the ONLY (or close to only) one represented on most threads I read.

    Lamiglass, Calstar, Seeker, etc. are West Coast mfgrs often mentioned.

    What should I know about the construction techniques, strength, durability, of the various manufacturers. Since only the highest Japanese use Boron, etc. i presume they all offer the same composites.

    How is one superior to the other. Forget price for this discussion.

    Why are the other high end Japanese mfgrs not represented in the states? Too high a price for our worthless US dollar?

    Have not seen this discussed on any of the threads.
     
  2. Uncle Russ

    Uncle Russ Senior Member

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    vaRandy,

    In addition to this thread--which I look forward to learning from myself--it might be profitable to go out and search the posts of some of the rod-builders on the forum--txseadog, Paul708, and Anglers-Pro-Shop just to name the ones whom I know do it professionally,--and I THINK some of it will be covered in those threads--but no doubt they will answer as well.

    Russ
     

  3. txseadog

    txseadog Moderator

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    I'll start this...
    OTI apparantly is the ONLY (or close to only) one represented on most threads I read.
    I think one of the main reasons is OTI offers a high quality products at very reasonable prices.

    Lamiglass, Calstar, Seeker, etc. are West Coast mfgrs often mentioned.
    Calstar and Seeker really don't have true Japanese style blanks in there line-up, however, Calstar does have the GFX jigging blanks which I have never pulled on but I think they are just medium action versions of the 7' graphiter blanks targeted at the East coast guys. Lamiglass has the CHJ series (blanks and finished rods) which are "true" jiggers but they don't seem to have gotten the market penetration as other brands.

    What should I know about the construction techniques, strength, durability, of the various manufacturers. Since only the highest Japanese use Boron, etc. i presume they all offer the same composites.
    I think its more about what you like, track record and how well the manufacturer stands behind the product. Think of jigging rods as the race cars of the fishing world - high performance, high-tech instruments that can let you down if not treated properly.

    How is one superior to the other. Forget price for this discussion.
    That's a chevy-v-ford kind of debate. What makes a rod superior to one person may be a disadvantage to another.

    Why are the other high end Japanese mfgrs not represented in the states? Too high a price for our worthless US dollar?
    This style of fishing is relatively new in the US and most anglers don't have the experience with jigging to truly appreciate the virtues of $500 Smith (or $260 OTI) when compared to a $100 Trevala, Penn, etc. when they first start.

    Say what you will about the Trevalas but the marketing folks at Shimano almost single handedly created the jigging market in the US with those dang butterflies.
     
  4. Uncle Russ

    Uncle Russ Senior Member

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    vaRandy: I own 2 OTI jig rods-300 and 600 and I have pulled on both. I own one high-end Japanese rod which is lovely and cost more than both OTI s together. I happen to like its appearance more than the OTI s but most people would disagree with that AND performance is more important to me than appearance anyway. As to action, I confess to not being well-versed in how a jig rod imputes action to the jig. I keep hearing that the Japanese rods are so much lighter than American rods--but when I weigh them--popping rods to popping rods and jig rods to jig rods (apples to apples) there is not that much difference in weight--even to someone jigging all day.

    And with the OTI rods, I am virtually certain that any greater weight in their finished rods over the comparable Japanese ones, is attributable to the material used in the grips--the stuff OTI uses appear to be denser, larger, and formed to fit the grip--(not sure what that's called)--and I happen to like that feature enough that a couple of ounces doesn't matter to me. (in the interest of full disclosure, though, I don't jig all day and all night.) So I would not get rid of either my Smith Nirai or my two OTI jig rods, but if I could afford only the two OTI s or the one Smith, I would take the OTI s in a heartbeat.

    Russ
     
  5. A.whitman

    A.whitman Senior Member

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    the price difference comes more from the components than anything else. fiji sic guides and reel seat aren't cheap. however i really don't know much about the blanks myself. will watch closely.
     
  6. jureal

    jureal Senior Member

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    I'll chime in with a few more for consideration.

    Jiggingmaster.... I believe Paul has these on hand and are available as a blank. Looks like a good buy. Not sure where they are mfg but has a good following.

    Phenix..... New ownership and new blanks on the market. Produced in China with materials bought in Japan. I have a few of these that are boron composite.

    Hopper.... Blanks available as well as finished rods. Don't own one but price seems very reasonable and has some following.

    Graphite USA... Been around a long time and has blanks configured similar to the Japan models.

    OTI.... just built a 600 gr blank cut down to 5' . Nice blank and very sturdy. Wife wants to grab this one so I may need another... :) :)
     
  7. paul708

    paul708 Site Sponsor

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    OTI apparantly is the ONLY (or close to only) one represented on most threads I read.

    OTI are very well made and seem to be working very well for jigging.
    hopefully they will become more known around the country
    they are on alot of threads .and mostly good reports

    Lamiglass, Calstar, Seeker, etc. are West Coast mfgrs often mentioned.

    The GFX calstar..seem to light for the jigging we do, i have played with them for a while, i still build with the GF series..not the X series for jigging
    the CHJ series of Lami..were out a few years..good design. blank weight a little heavy compared to some, not quite as parabolic as some, i have used them when they came out, not to bad. but i have other choices i like a little better


    What should I know about the construction techniques, strength, durability, of the various manufacturers. Since only the highest Japanese use Boron, etc. i presume they all offer the same composites.


    construction....alot of blanks are made on the same mandrels,
    and different, amounts of glass/ graphte are used to get actions and ratings
    the cheaper blanks may not have the quality control or use the best type of material

    How is one superior to the other. Forget price for this discussion.

    different actions, different materials,
    superior is hard to "type" about..
    you can feel it;)


    Why are the other high end Japanese mfgrs not represented in the states?
    Too high a price for our worthless US dollar?

    they actually are, just not that much to get alot of talk
    except from the guys that use :D



    Have not seen this discussed on any of the threads.

    there are alot of jigging forums talking about this
    maybe just not at the same time
     
  8. paul708

    paul708 Site Sponsor

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    I'll chime in with a few more for consideration.

    Jiggingmaster.... I believe Paul has these on hand and are available as a blank. Looks like a good buy. Not sure where they are mfg but has a good following.

    Phenix..... New ownership and new blanks on the market. Produced in China with materials bought in Japan. I have a few of these that are boron composite.

    Hopper.... Blanks available as well as finished rods. Don't own one but price seems very reasonable and has some following.

    Graphite USA... Been around a long time and has blanks configured similar to the Japan models.

    OTI.... just built a 600 gr blank cut down to 5' . Nice blank and very sturdy. Wife wants to grab this one so I may need another... :) :)
    love the Jiggingmaster,,sweet.
    the GUSA are nice..i actually worked with them to design the GUSA WahooJR..a nice 7' jig blank. it fills the gap betwen the 8' and shorter rods
    its all graphite works well..
    the OTI are a powerful short rod/ blanks in 300g and 600g for lighter work or heavy duty jigging
    guys have been cutting them, and liking them;)

    i am not looking at to many "other" brands..

    we have actually..made our own blanks to "mimic":D :D
    some of the other blanks mentioned...;) ;)

    its pretty neat to have access to "similiar" materials and choices
     
  9. VaRandy

    VaRandy Site Sponsor

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    "how well the manufacturer stands behind the product". Since you mentioned this and I don't have a clue....How Do the various manufacturers stand behind their product.

    Nothing short of a replacement is worth a damn and I doubt they do that. In conventional rods, I only buy Loomis and Shimano high end stuff that is replaced no questions if broken by a fish...period.

    How proud of these blanks are the manufacturers because now is the time to find out how confident they are about their products.

    Seeing how we have bukoo time to rebuild a replacement, replacing the blank seems reasonable insurance, right?

    Flame helmet on!
     
  10. Billy 40

    Billy 40 Senior Member

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    I can only speak for the company who's blanks I carry, GUSA. Anyone purchasing GUSA's from me and has a warantee issue, I will take care of it and replace the blank provided I have a similar in stock.
     
  11. ksong

    ksong SPONSOR

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    "how well the manufacturer stands behind the product". Since you mentioned this and I don't have a clue....How Do the various manufacturers stand behind their product.

    Nothing short of a replacement is worth a damn and I doubt they do that. In conventional rods, I only buy Loomis and Shimano high end stuff that is replaced no questions if broken by a fish...period.

    How proud of these blanks are the manufacturers because now is the time to find out how confident they are about their products.

    Seeing how we have bukoo time to rebuild a replacement, replacing the blank seems reasonable insurance, right?

    Flame helmet on!
    I saw a bunch of cheap spinning reels under $20 at my regular tackle shop and I asked about warranty problems of the reels. The shop owner replied that they replace reels without any question. :)
     
  12. hatidua

    hatidua Senior Member

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    While I very much appreciate the warranties that some rod/blank manufacturers offer, it's a bit much to ask the manufacturer to replace outright any rod/blank that breaks on a fish. I've seen more angler-error breaks than I'd care to recall and yet every last one of them expects the manufacturer to step up to the plate for a breakage the rod was never designed to withstand.

    Really want a rod that won't break? get a solid glass rod for $20 and enjoy it. I personally like some of the Japanese rods that have essentially no warranty....and I'm comfortable with the level of personal responsibility that comes with that ;)

    One caveat in the above is that I've likely sent more snapped rods in for the Loomis Expiditer program than anyone on this forum this year :p
     
  13. VaRandy

    VaRandy Site Sponsor

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    Billy, does that mean the manufacturers are not there for us. Only dealers that happened to have a match with the blank?
     
  14. paul708

    paul708 Site Sponsor

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    Billy, does that mean the manufacturers are not there for us. Only dealers that happened to have a match with the blank?
    maybe, that could happen
    you may not be able to deal with the mani direct for blanks..it kinda depends on who you are

    most of the blanks come with the factory warranty.and will be replaced per the warranty
    with some companys it may be hard to get some blanks from (right away)to replace
    when the new superseeker came out the were very hard to get for a rodbuilder, we waited a long time for some blanks
    with GUSA i also stock the blanks that i use on rods. so the replacement is there for me to use or pass on
    and so that my customers dont wait for replacement
     
  15. Billy 40

    Billy 40 Senior Member

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    What Paul said is what I meant. When you buy a specialty blank or rod from a small company, tehy may not have the inventory waiting for you in teh event a rod is broken. Large companies such as Loomis who are dealing with millions in dollars in profit, can afford to sit on millions of dollars of inventory to replace a broken blank/rod.

    If you buy a specialty Japanese blank, which is imported to teh US and carried by one of 3 shops - tehy mightnot have another one in stock, and it might take a while to replace.

    As a rodbuilder, most of us have had to deal with waiting a long time for blank orders to be filled, from almost every single company. In addition to components, especially Titanium and SIC, which a lot of places do not carry large inventory in, if any at all. We are used to waiting, and most of s understrand that we needto carry our own inventory. When you guys order blanks/rods - you should also keep this i mind.
     
  16. ChrisW

    ChrisW Member

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    I don't know of any Japanese rod manufacturer who freely sells its blanks.

    Their finished rods generally don't carry warranties so if you are expecting a 100% handover on a busted rod, then don't buy Japanese.

    Wth respect to jigging and popping rods, they are unmatched in perfomance, and in price! Japanese jigging is only in its infancy in the US so the uptake of these expensive rods is slow especially with such cheap beginner options like the $100 Trevella.

    Jigging Master rods have a world-wide following, and for very good reasons - PERFORMANCE! So if you want performance, check these out with Paul708. I'm unsure how his custom rods work out but the factory rods are the yardstick.
     
  17. paul708

    paul708 Site Sponsor

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    I don't know of any Japanese rod manufacturer who freely sells its blanks.

    Their finished rods generally don't carry warranties so if you are expecting a 100% handover on a busted rod, then don't buy Japanese.

    Wth respect to jigging and popping rods, they are unmatched in perfomance, and in price! Japanese jigging is only in its infancy in the US so the uptake of these expensive rods is slow especially with such cheap beginner options like the $100 Trevella.

    Jigging Master rods have a world-wide following, and for very good reasons - PERFORMANCE! So if you want performance, check these out with Paul708. I'm unsure how his custom rods work out but the factory rods are the yardstick.
    Hey chris..i think the Guys using the custom JM's are way more than HAPPY:D :D
    and even more happy with the prices of the customs;)
     
  18. BretABaker

    BretABaker Guest

    OTI rods are ridiculously strong. the 30lb drag max rating is conservative on the 600g rod. I normally use 22-24lbs and it handles this without any problem. i think the rods are light, and have jigged all day/casted almost all night for 2 straight nights and the weight is not an issue.

    the grips are a personal preference. if you have smaller hands the grips might be too large, but just get it custom wrapped with smaller grips. for me the grips are nice.
     
  19. BretABaker

    BretABaker Guest

    oh, i love the jigging master rods....have the 500g and its great.
     
  20. paul708

    paul708 Site Sponsor

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    oh, i love the jigging master rods....have the 500g and its great.
    oh yeah ..i forgot you got ..the gmans spare 500g:D
    that is sweet