Best knot for casting

Discussion in 'Tackle and Rigging' started by hamptonsurf, Aug 20, 2009.

  1. hamptonsurf

    hamptonsurf Senior Member

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    I have had issues with my knots catching in the guides.....more so with smaller diameter guides on casting rods, but also on spinning rods. What is the best not for connecting power pro (or any braid) to a flouro leader, so that it A0 doesn't get caught in the eyes and B) does not catch the braid still on the reel as it comes off the spool.

    Often, the mono tag end in my albright catches other braid and causes wicked backlashes. This is when casting light deadly dicks on a whoppy casting rod for bass or even slinging 16 oz jigs away from the boat for cod.

    Thanks Guys.
     
  2. SteelingHeads

    SteelingHeads Senior Member

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    I have had issues with my knots catching in the guides.....more so with smaller diameter guides on casting rods, but also on spinning rods. What is the best not for connecting power pro (or any braid) to a flouro leader, so that it A0 doesn't get caught in the eyes and B) does not catch the braid still on the reel as it comes off the spool.

    Often, the mono tag end in my albright catches other braid and causes wicked backlashes. This is when casting light deadly dicks on a whoppy casting rod for bass or even slinging 16 oz jigs away from the boat for cod.

    Thanks Guys.

    The best knot for this purpose is a Page ranking knot. The best method IMO is a spliced loop to a short wind-on leader.
     

  3. SpecialK

    SpecialK Super Moderator

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    I'll Second the P.R. knot. It take a little practice to learn but it great for casting once you learn it. I tie short ones for casting and longer for jigging.
     
  4. hamptonsurf

    hamptonsurf Senior Member

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    I have heard of the PR knot on here, but have never tried it myself. I guess it is about time. The slim beauty is one that a lot of people use up here in New England….I have a hard time tying it with braid to mono. The problem with the loop to loop splice is that I have heard a lot of bad things about casting hollow core braid…AND, I am not as confident as I would like to be in my biminis…..especially in heavier mono/flouro.
     
  5. red34

    red34 Guest

    When I was fishing in Cali I learned this knot. It's main purpose is to let an anchovie freely swim the knot out of the guides w/o resistance or catching. Kinda the same thing you're looking for when casting. I have since replaced all of my bimini to albright connections to this. Plus it's relatively easy to master.

    Bob Sands Fishing Tackle

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  6. SteelingHeads

    SteelingHeads Senior Member

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    I have heard of the Page Ranking knot on here, but have never tried it myself. I guess it is about time. The slim beauty is one that a lot of people use up here in New England….I have a hard time tying it with braid to mono. The problem with the loop to loop splice is that I have heard a lot of bad things about casting hollow core braid…AND, I am not as confident as I would like to be in my biminis…..especially in heavier mono/flouro.


    Hampton,

    Hopefully Pametfisher will chime in on this one. If he does not, search his posts on this site and read up on the work / experimentation he has done on knotless casting systems. He has made believers out of a lot of people.
     
  7. SpecialK

    SpecialK Super Moderator

    1,568
    18
    I have heard of the Page Ranking knot on here, but have never tried it myself. I guess it is about time. The slim beauty is one that a lot of people use up here in New England….I have a hard time tying it with braid to mono. The problem with the loop to loop splice is that I have heard a lot of bad things about casting hollow core braid…AND, I am not as confident as I would like to be in my biminis…..especially in heavier mono/flouro.
    In the loop to loop mentioned, the leader would be inserted into hollow mono that had a loop pulled in it... Seach Windon
    The only bimini would be in the end of your mainline.
     
  8. SteelingHeads

    SteelingHeads Senior Member

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    When I was fishing in Cali I learned this knot. It's main purpose is to let an anchovie freely swim the knot out of the guides w/o resistance or catching. Kinda the same thing you're looking for when casting. I have since replaced all of my bimini to albright connections to this. Plus it's relatively easy to master.

    Bob Sands Fishing Tackle

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

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    Red,

    I have used this knot before with one modification. I used a figure eight knot in the mono instead of a Uni, and the profile was even thinner. It is a good knot.
     
  9. hamptonsurf

    hamptonsurf Senior Member

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    I like the albright alot....the problem I see for casting is that the tag end of the mono (the thicker of the two lines, points towrds the lure end of the line....if it were facing toward the reel, the issue would not happen as much.
     
  10. red34

    red34 Guest

    I like the albright alot....the problem I see for casting is that the tag end of the mono (the thicker of the two lines, points towrds the lure end of the line....if it were facing toward the reel, the issue would not happen as much.


    That's why the Bob Sands knot works so well. The mono tag points towards the reel. Super smooth going out
     
  11. Custom Canvas

    Custom Canvas Member

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    What about regular loop to loop with a windon??
     
  12. Stryper

    Stryper Senior Member

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    That's why the Bob Sands knot works so well. The mono tag points towards the reel. Super smooth going out

    Once you learn it thats all you will use, after 80# we go to spliced in mono/flouro out here in SoCal with a nail knot or Sato crimps generally they can be done <5 minutes on a rolling boat.
     
  13. pametfisher

    pametfisher Senior Member

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    I have had issues with my knots catching in the guides.....more so with smaller diameter guides on casting rods, but also on spinning rods. What is the best not for connecting power pro (or any braid) to a flouro leader, so that it A) doesn't get caught in the eyes and B) does not catch the braid still on the reel as it comes off the spool.

    Often, the mono tag end in my albright catches other braid and causes wicked backlashes. This is when casting light deadly dicks on a whoppy casting rod for bass or even slinging 16 oz jigs away from the boat for cod.

    Thanks Guys.

    There is a lot of good advice already in the thread. Let me summarize it and add a couple thoughts.

    Knots have several problems: 1) They reduce the strength of the lines, usually by about 30-40% (although Bimini, and the first four knots I list are nearly 100% if tied perfectly); 2) If the tag of Mono faces forward, it hits guides on the way out, weakening the knot; 3) If the tag of mono faces to the rear, it can catch on the way in, when you have a large fish on; 4) 80# mono and above, they can knock out guide rings; and 5) if you wind the knot onto the spool, eventually, after a lot of casting, the line on the spinning reel spool is not packed well and loops of line come off causing a "wind-type" knot.

    So the very best way to make the connection, is a spliced Wind-On leader, whose length is cut so that it wraps once or less around the spool. We have been casting up to 130# leaders, all day long, and catching fish to 300 lbs. with none of the above problems. For casting, look for a Wind-On with a short Splice and a small Serve.

    The knots that best meet your condition A and B are:

    -P.R. Knot
    -Mid Knot

    Next best under 80# mono/fluoro (above 80# the mono knot gets large) and meet your condition A are:

    -Sig Knot
    -Slim Beauty

    There are some variants of the above (e.g. the Sands Knot seems a lot like a Slim Beauty)

    Not so good at your condition A or B or reduce line strength:

    -Most Other Knots

    So if you want the very best solution, buy or make a Wind-On leader. It is strong, casts far, is durable, saves wear on your guides, reduces or eliminates "wind-type" knots, saves your lures from sailing into the distance when the knot breaks at the guides, and brings home more fish.

    If knots are your thing, make them at home ahead of time (not while you're fishing) and master one of the first four knots and test it till it is 90% of line strength or above. If the first four knots are too hard to master, then master something and know its strength by testing and its limitations.
     
  14. hamptonsurf

    hamptonsurf Senior Member

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    I LOVE wind ons....but not the shimano butterfly ones, as I am sure most of you have experienced. With that said, I'd like to be able to splice a hollow core loop to my solid braid...then loop to loop it to the wind on leader. I think I may just need LOTS more practice. That spliced hollow loop on the solid braid is my answer to shaky bimini knots that I tie.

    Pametfisher.....I have heard very good things about your wind ons....nice work
     
  15. SteelingHeads

    SteelingHeads Senior Member

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    I LOVE wind ons....but not the shimano butterfly ones, as I am sure most of you have experienced. With that said, I'd like to be able to splice a hollow core loop to my solid braid...then loop to loop it to the wind on leader. I think I may just need LOTS more practice. That spliced hollow loop on the solid braid is my answer to shaky bimini knots that I tie.

    Pametfisher.....I have heard very good things about your wind ons....nice work


    Hampton,

    If you are not comfortable with your Bimini's yet, and not yet comfortable with splicing hollow to solid, try using a Triple Surgeon's loop in your solid braid for now. There isn't much of anything easier to tie than a Triple Surgeon's and it is quite strong. At least that gets you fishing a wind-on and takes the stress off your rod guides.
     
  16. hamptonsurf

    hamptonsurf Senior Member

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    That'll sling through the guides failry well, I would guess, as there are no blunt ends to catch the guides or line. Thanks. Not sure what my deal is with the bimini, but I can;t seem to get them toght enough....I have gotten to the point where they LOOK right....but under alot of force, they seem to strecth out....that is clearly not good.
     
  17. pametfisher

    pametfisher Senior Member

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    I LOVE wind ons....but not the shimano butterfly ones, as I am sure most of you have experienced. With that said, I'd like to be able to splice a hollow core loop to my solid braid...then loop to loop it to the wind on leader. I think I may just need LOTS more practice. That spliced hollow loop on the solid braid is my answer to shaky bimini knots that I tie.

    Pametfisher.....I have heard very good things about your wind ons....nice work

    Grab some #2 leader/rigging wire and 80# White 16 carrier hollow, be patient. After a while, splicing becomes much stronger, easier and reliable than knotting can ever be--and I've been tying knots for over 50 years.

    Hampton,

    If you are not comfortable with your Bimini's yet, and not yet comfortable with splicing hollow to solid, try using a Triple Surgeon's loop in your solid braid for now. There isn't much of anything easier to tie than a Triple Surgeon's and it is quite strong. At least that gets you fishing a wind-on and takes the stress off your rod guides.

    I have been testing a lot of lines on spools lately where I'm helping people add hollow. What I've seen is that knots like the Surgeon's Loop are breaking in the following ranges:

    50# braid--30-35 lbs.
    65# braid--40-45 lbs.
    80# braid--60-65 lbs.

    (BTW, the low end of the range for 50# braid--I had one knot break at 25 lbs., yesterday. The I tied another and it was 30 lbs.)

    To me, that says the Surgeon's Loop is great for 80# braid and above, marginal for 65# braid, but only an emergency knot for 50# braid and below. My reasoning is: if you start with 20 lbs. drag, a good fish takes a long run, then your drag can reach 30-35 lbs. or higher. If you mis-set your drag, if your line is weakened, if you have been casting a knot for a while, or if the fish makes a sudden move, all the numbers get worse.
     
  18. hamptonsurf

    hamptonsurf Senior Member

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    aside from pametfisher's wind ons.....are the BHP wind ons still believed to be the best? I know will never spend the time to make my own and i think prices are reasonable to just buy them.
     
  19. hamptonsurf

    hamptonsurf Senior Member

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    Pametfisher....based on your posts, I would have guessed you'd been tying knots for 20 years.....good for you!! I'm going to give this a shot for sure. What line do you use for the carrier....
     
  20. pametfisher

    pametfisher Senior Member

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