ANOTHER knot question...

Discussion in 'Tackle and Rigging' started by Courtland, Sep 8, 2009.

  1. Courtland

    Courtland Site Sponsor

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    I've searched, archived, You Tubed, etc.. Can't find the answer to these 2 questions:

    One of my jigging rods has 80# JB and the other has 60# JB, both lines lay fairly flat(as opposed to round). The questions are:

    1)How big of a loop are you all leaving on your bimini ends, for your loop-loop leader connections?

    2)With the flatter line I am getting a bit of twist in my loop end. They are testing out OK with pressure but I am thinking of wrapping the tag end around the main line instead of twisting them together like I would in mono. Any sugesstions or am I overthinking it?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Smitty 20

    Smitty 20 Junior member

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    response to 2). maybe its just me not being worried about it and i should be but my bimini's do the same thing and i have never had a problem with it. the other day i did a 40 turn with 50lb p-pro (yes i know ppro is terrible line!) to an 80lb flouro leader and it was good enough for a 200lb bluefun. in the nicest way possible, your overthinking it. there should be no problems. good luck
     

  3. pametfisher

    pametfisher Senior Member

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    Your lines may appear flat when not under tension, but when under tension they take a round shape.

    A good size for a loop for wind-on leaders is about an inch in diameter, or 1 1/2" legs.

    Since you are using Jerry Brown lines, I'm wondering why you're not splicing End Loops. They are 100% strong, stronger than a Bimini, much more durable and reliable, and you can make them any size, from 1/4" to feet.

    If you want to make a Bimini, make it in the normal way with 50 initial twists. Make the end loop as small as you can. Glue the stop knot so that it doesn't come undone.
     
  4. Courtland

    Courtland Site Sponsor

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    Since you are using Jerry Brown lines, I'm wondering why you're not splicing End Loops.


    I tie a good bimini, and come from a trolling background. I have made the move to bottom fishing and have a setup that works for me there. I'm just utilizing the skills I have to come up with my best solution jigging leader system for me. I figured I would start with what I know. I will go back and browse the end splice scenario for future reference. Thanks.
     
  5. pametfisher

    pametfisher Senior Member

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    I tie a good bimini, and come from a trolling background. I have made the move to bottom fishing and have a setup that works for me there. I'm just utilizing the skills I have to come up with my best solution jigging leader system for me. I figured I would start with what I know. I will go back and browse the end splice scenario for future reference. Thanks.

    The Bimini is a great knot and a good way to make a mainline loop with any line. Using the skills you have is a smart approach. I sometimes get a little over zealous on the splicing topic, since I'm a relatively recent convert myself. Before that, the Bimini was my go-to knot. PF
     
  6. Deep_Sea_Gull

    Deep_Sea_Gull Lifetime Supporting Members

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    Tie your knots and then break them guys. Learn how they break.

    I found that I could pull a loop into JB 65 Lb solid....l had to learn the process...

    Make 'em and break 'em... I won't tie your knots for ya.. Find what works best for you..
     
  7. jig

    jig Senior Member

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    I've been doing just that lately. Not very happy with the results in braid.
     
  8. guillotm

    guillotm Member

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    Has anyone done testing with the aussie plait in braid or the surgeons loop using seven passes through?
     
  9. pametfisher

    pametfisher Senior Member

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    Has anyone done testing with the aussie plait in braid or the surgeons loop using seven passes through?

    About a year ago, I tried the Aussie Plait in braid. I found that it was hard to get tight enough so it didn't slip under load.

    Once you have enough turns to keep a Surgeon's Loop in braid from slipping (3 turns in my testing) more doesn't seem to change the strength. That makes sense because the weak point is where the stress on the mainline concentrates at the bottom of the knot.
     
  10. guillotm

    guillotm Member

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    The only problem I have had with windon casting leaders is with the loop to loop connection. When the time comes to change the leader it is a bugger to get undone. Is there a fix for this?
     
  11. pametfisher

    pametfisher Senior Member

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    The only problem I have had with windon casting leaders is with the loop to loop connection. When the time comes to change the leader it is a bugger to get undone. Is there a fix for this?

    There are two ways to get a SINGLE (or double) loop-to-loop connection apart.

    1. If the leader is worn out, simply cut the loop on the leader, then it pulls right out.

    2. If you want to save the leader, grab both sides of the loop in the leader. Pull them in opposite directions. This makes the loop in your mainline roll back on itself. After that, it's pretty easy to work apart (20 seconds or so).

    A SINGLE loop-to-loop is 100% strong and easiest to align when putting it together, and easiest to get apart.

    PF
     
  12. Fishhead56

    Fishhead56 Senior Member

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    For me to understand,
    So single loop to loop for line to line will test same as say 5 turn Cat's paw.
    Is Cat's paw any benifet to say a swivel or solid ring?

    Just asking for info,
    Thanks
    Kev


    ................................................................................
    [A SINGLE loop-to-loop is 100% strong and easiest to align when putting it together, and easiest to get apart.

    PF[/QUOTE]
     
  13. pametfisher

    pametfisher Senior Member

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    [/QUOTE]

    The answer is yes a single is as good as two, three, five or more. The reason is simple. The tension in the loop is half the tension in the line--the beauty of line doublers. A single loop to loop is 60% or so strong but is working at half the tension. Therefore 60%/0.5 equals 120%, of course nothing can be more than 100%.

    The best part of of a loop-to-loop over a swivel is it is stronger than knots to a swivel. The second best part is you can wind it through your guides without damaging them.
     
  14. Deep_Sea_Gull

    Deep_Sea_Gull Lifetime Supporting Members

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    Don't take anyone's word for it... Make 'em and break 'em. Prove to yourself what works best for you.

    You can achieve equal pressure on each leg easier with a single loop. It's easier to tie and untie than a cats paw...

    Break a few knots and learn for yourself what works or not...

    [/QUOTE]