a clicking torium

Discussion in 'Reel Repair' started by alantani, Aug 23, 2009.

  1. alantani

    alantani Senior Member

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    my complaint about the shimano trinidad and torium reels has always been the drag system and the anti-reverse system. well, the carbontex drag washers from smoothdrag.com and cal's grease totally fixed the drag problem. the anti-reverse roller bearing and ambassaduer-style pawl (dog), however, still posed a risk of failure and personal injury. if i was going to fix that, i would use a stack of two anti-reverse roller bearings in line and add a spring for the pawl. well, i actually found that in a shimano reel. this is a little embarassing, but i never had a clue. the guys on bloody decks had mention this before, but i guess i must be working on the poor side of town. the incredibly expensive shimano trinidad 20 DC had never crossed my bench until recently. look what i found!

    [​IMG]

    that's right, the shimano trinidad 20 DC has greased carbon fiber drag washers. but there's more. it also has a spring loaded pawl.

    [​IMG]

    and finally, it has a double height anti-reverse roller bearing and inner tube!

    [​IMG]

    well, with this inspiration (and a dog send to me by a guy on bloodydecks!), i finally decided to try in on a torium. here is the trinidad dc pawl spring.

    [​IMG]

    here is the ambassaduer-style pawl that comes stock with the torium (and the standard trinidads).

    [​IMG]

    you can see already how the pawl is damaged. the anti-reverse roller bearing in this reel is totally shot, so the pawl is doing all of the work.

    [​IMG]

    the ambassaduer-style spring actually peels off fairly easily. then you can use a standard mill bastard file to clean up all of the burrs.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    lay the spring flat.

    [​IMG]

    now here's the tricky part. there is a little bit of a gap underneath the pawl that allows your new dog spring to get stuck. to avoid this, i added a shimano washer that i pulled out of my junk box and used this washer to shim the pawl. now the spring will not get stuck.

    [​IMG]

    ok, now this washer is critical. without it, the pawl spring gets caught underneath the pawl and the pawl gets jammed in the "up and away" position. that means it won't work at all. i THINK that this washer is from the shimano tld 15. it should be spacer A, part #TLD 0047. i have to check the next TLD that comes in to make sure. i did not think to use the trinidad dc pawl that i already had. i will have to try that on the next reel.


    http://alantani.com/gallery/1/1_22_08_09_7_11_47_4.jpeg

    install the pawl.

    http://alantani.com/gallery/1/1_22_08_09_7_19_01_0.jpeg

    install the anti-reverse pawl keeper.

    http://alantani.com/gallery/1/1_22_08_09_7_19_03_1.jpeg

    install the anti-reverse ratchet and your new spring loaded dog system is complete!

    http://alantani.com/gallery/1/1_22_08_09_7_19_06_2.jpeg

    so there you have it, your clicking torium.
     
  2. luna sea II

    luna sea II Banned

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    Thanks for the detailed info. did you install the longer anti-reverse bearing too?
     

  3. spineyman

    spineyman Senior Member

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    How much for you to do the upgrade on a Torium?
     
  4. SpecialK

    SpecialK Super Moderator

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    Alan, sweet find. I have a torium 20 that I would love to have this upgrade in. I really like jigging with it but am always worried the anti reverse will fail again.
    I'd be happy to let you upgrade for me just let me know a cost.
    Thanks!
     
  5. alantani

    alantani Senior Member

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    unfortunately, there is no room for the taller anti-reverse roller bearing. not without making a new housing or side plate. i was told by several guys that the trinidad DC pawl is thicker and it eliminates the need for the washer. spineyman, no one will be doing these upgrades for a while. the springs are on back order at shimano. stay tuned...... alan
     
  6. SpecialK

    SpecialK Super Moderator

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    the ambassaduer-style spring actually peels off fairly easily. then you can use a standard mill bastard file to clean up all of the burrs.
    [​IMG]


    I there any reason why this has to be removed? It looks like it could stay and be extra assurance that the pawl is lined up.
     
  7. alantani

    alantani Senior Member

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    yeah, the new spring would not work well enough with the ambassaduer style spring in place.
     
  8. spineyman

    spineyman Senior Member

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    Alan, so no one has figured out how to beef up a Saltist huh? I can say after using both for some time now the saltist has been way stronger than the Torium to begin with.
     
  9. alantani

    alantani Senior Member

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    at least to me, the dog spring upgrade for the trinidad and torium make the reels much more reliable. without a similar upgrade, i really would not recommend the saltiga or saltist anymore. i would guess that there have been enough failures on both sides that the need for such an upgrade should be clear.

    the one saving grace is that you are unlikely to see this failure if you don't lean on your reel too hard. keep the drag pressure under 10 pounds for any of these reels and you should be fine.
     
  10. spineyman

    spineyman Senior Member

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    I jig for decent sized fish on big wrecks and I am here to tell you if I don't crank your drag down you will not see the fish either. My Saltist lasted 4 times longer than my Torium and still no failure.
     
  11. alantani

    alantani Senior Member

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    ....if I don't crank your drag down you will not see the fish either.....

    yeah, i kinda figured that.

    the point is this. it's dark out. and all we've got are flashlights. you point a light at something and say it's this, and i point a light at the same thing and say it's that. we are looking at the same thing, seeing it from different angles and in a different light and we're saying it's two different things. the guys at the switch are daiwa and shimano, and there's no way they're going to light up the room for us. sorry to be so critical, but until they release service records to the general fishing public, i have to assume they actually WANT to keep us in the dark.

    it's obvious that your reels work, and i'm happy for you. and it is also true that reels are sent to me because they're broken. that much should be obvious. i would ask you to simply trust me when i say that i have seem more than my share of broken trinidads, toriums, saltiga and saltists. enough that i am not happy with any of them! i don't really care for these reels, and i would imagine that the reel manufacturers do not really care for me.

    actually, one of the reasons that i'm so ticked off at the saltiga right now is that i am going to have to service this one particular reel for the THIRD time. the anti-reverse on this one keeps on failing. it's starting to get personal! alan
     
  12. hamptonsurf

    hamptonsurf Senior Member

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    so.....what reels are you happy with Alan? as an alternative to the saltists which i love, what would you say is better?
     
  13. crazyjigr

    crazyjigr Senior Member

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    I guess if they beefed up the antireverse the next weekest point would give and my guess is ''it'' would be more expensive to fix.
    One thing I notice that many folks using conventionals do is engage the spool when line is going out fast that will put a lot of extra wear on these components
     
  14. alantani

    alantani Senior Member

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    a penn baja special would be a good choice if the size is ok. a penn torque 300 would be an option if you are ok with the weight. these are both nice because both reels generate plenty of drag and have double spring loaded dogs.

    as far as the trinidads and toriums go, upgrading to carbontex drag washers and a spring loaded dog make the reel much more reliable. oh, and big handle grips on all of them.
     
  15. alantani

    alantani Senior Member

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    you know, guys, i really want to apologize about getting all preachy. it's been a rough week..............
     
  16. spineyman

    spineyman Senior Member

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    Hey nothing to it. We are glad you take the time to school us rookies. Thanks for all your help.
     
  17. oldtrackster

    oldtrackster Senior Member

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    Hey nothing to it. We are glad you take the time to school us rookies. Thanks for all your help.
    X2
     
  18. MrBill

    MrBill Senior Member

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    sorry to be so critical, but until they release service records to the general fishing public, i have to assume they actually WANT to keep us in the dark.

    i don't really care for these reels, and i would imagine that the reel manufacturers do not really care for me. alan


    With that being said, I just want to say that you are the Ralph Nader of fishing reels. The industry might not like you, but we do. Planned obsolesce is a way to make money. It keeps the parts and service industry busy and thus improves the overall revenue of every manufacturing company.

    Some company's have seem to have even gone to the trouble of making a fine product worse. I used to be a firm believer in a certain appliance. You know the one where the repair guy just sits in the office waiting for the phone to ring because they never fail. Those washers and dryers would last and last. My last two have been a nightmare. Most of the proven all metal over engineered parts aren't present in the new models. They lost me. I will never buy another.

    I remember my mothers vacuum cleaner as a kid. If it broke, you took it in and it was repaired and good for a few more years. Now, if you get a year out of a vacuum cleaner you jump up and down.

    Software company's get me the most frustrated. A new release means that you are the guinea pig and have to suffer for months with patches and patches. Once it finally works, they release a new version so you can get all pissed off again. :mad:

    I feel that some reel company's use us fisherman to be their R&D. For God's sake, test the reel in the world reel before releasing it. I don't like being a field tester and a consumer at the same time. If they would just take the time to do it right with adequate field testing, and fix the problems before the final production run, we wouldn't have to suffer. It's all about getting a product to the market before the next competitor. Without mentioning names, I will never buy three brands of reels because of horrible failures that happened on first trips. They lost me forever.

    I would like to thank you for all the work and postings you do on different reels. All the time you spend taking those detailed pictures aren't going to waste. We all look and learn from your reports. Keep up the good work and maybe someday, the big boys will learn that product reliability and the willingness to retool for improvement makes us loyal brand buyers.
     
  19. SAND

    SAND Member

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    Thanks Alan for the idea, I really appreciate it :D
    I had my Torium 16 upgraded last week.
    I replaced it and installed trinidad dc 20's dog and dog spring on my Torium 16.
    Now my Torium has a spring loaded dog and it's clicking but not too loud and I kinda like it and have more confidence with this reel than before.

    The trinidad dc dog is not thicker but the diameter is bigger about 1mm than torium dog so there is no need to install a washer underneath the dog to keep the spring in place.

    Next I'll have my trinidad 30 upgrade as well.

    Can't wait to test it on the water :D


    Sand