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Ohhhh......... for a robust two speed spinner

The engineering of the WTF has a number of engineering weak points that would be quickly encountered if the drag was any heavier.
Additionally the combined rotor anti-reverse & handle anti-reverse will inevitably not be completely synchronous ........leading to situations where the anti-reverse taking the strain is the anti-reverse in the handle & the geartain will be under load..............try changing gears in that situation..........it just wont happen as the gear will be unable to disengage.and there will be shockloads in the "T"- pin if it does ( probably the weakest link in the reel engineeringwise.( He He...........on an outboard you call it a shear-pin......... He He ).
The handle anti-reverse in the WFT reel is a 'cosmetic' fix for the slack introduced by a 5 gear motion set compared to a 2 gear motion set as in a single speed reel........... its actually a threat to the longevity of the geartrain mechanism methinks.
( if the WFT was mine I would be putting that dog & sprin in the rotor & disabling the handle anti-reverse 7 putting up with the backlash in the 5- gear train.

Crystal balling ...........

A far better pathway for 2-speeding a spinner would be a simple 3 gear train utilising an internal planetary gear set for the 2 speeding, inside the main gear............this would reverse the rotation direction of the rotor & require mirror imaging of the rotor bail arm components.
..........Is that going to bother the reel function .......... Nup.
The gear selector & its release could work the same way as most conventional 2-speeds .............rotating release is a PITA.
- push the gear selector & push the release is the way to go .........and you want this on the outside of the handle , not inside its arc of movement ( as in the DAM example )

In all other respects the engineering of such a reel would be the same as current single speed versions.

There are two (2) downsides of a 2-speed spinner design :-
ONE........is that an internal planetary gear to the main gear , even in high speed will reduce the effective high gear ratio of the maingear & rotor pinion.
This can be compensated by increasing the maingear ratio or the spool diameter or a bit of both...........easily accommodated to maintain retrieve rate..............that is really what gear ratio is about anyway.

The other........ is the torsional strength of the oscillating spool shaft.
The problem here is a bit complicated..............but stick with me.........
The rotating head design of a spinner does not provide a constant radial torque to the spool shaft as it rotates,( as in a conventional )
On a spinner the torque load increases as the bail arm roller moves away from the rod and decreases as the bail arm moves towards the rod as the rotor revolves.
This radial torque is many times higher in a spinner than in a conventional.
Its why you have to drop the rod to retrieve line with a spinner and the line tension in doing this is a lot lower than what can be achieved with a conventional during the pump & wind caper.
ie a conventional can crank the rod down under tension............a spinner can only do this under very much lower tension.
So providing a low gear to a spinner will directly increase the available radial torque that can be generated on the spool oscillating shaft by about a factor of 2 ( the typical difference between high & low gear ratios in a 2-speed reel ).
This means that a 2-speed spinner needs a larger diameter oscillating shaft so it doesn't simply bend permanently when the spinner is being cranked hard in low gear.
ie
it needs roughly twice the rigidity of the spool oscillating shaft compared to a single speed.
ie bigger shaft .........bigger pinion..........bigger main gear = a bigger reel body = a lot more weight, but the basic engineering is available.

All problems that the reel designer has to deal with in designing a 2-speed spinner for "cows" or AJs , yellows, grouper, and other beasties that pull hard & like structure...............after all that is the role that a 2-speed spinner is most desired for.

2C IMHO
 

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Ohhhh......... for a robust two speed spinner

The engineering of the WTF has a number of engineering weak points that would be quickly encountered if the drag was any heavier....

... All problems that the reel designer has to deal with in designing a 2-speed spinner for "cows" or AJs , yellows, grouper, and other beasties that pull hard & like structure...............after all that is the role that a 2-speed spinner is most desired for.

2C IMHO

Denis,

Thanks for providing this additional insight. As an engineer, science geek, and fishing fanatic I often wondered if a 2-speed spinning reel was feasible.

Regards,
Ty
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Denis,

Thanks for taking time to share this additional info. I have learned something from the review and from your post.

May the fish be with you,

Iyaman

Ohhhh......... for a robust two speed spinner

The engineering of the WTF has a number of engineering weak points that would be quickly encountered if the drag was any heavier.
Additionally the combined rotor anti-reverse & handle anti-reverse will inevitably not be completely synchronous ........leading to situations where the anti-reverse taking the strain is the anti-reverse in the handle & the geartain will be under load..............try changing gears in that situation..........it just wont happen as the gear will be unable to disengage.and there will be shockloads in the "T"- pin if it does ( probably the weakest link in the reel engineeringwise.( He He...........on an outboard you call it a shear-pin......... He He ).
The handle anti-reverse in the WFT reel is a 'cosmetic' fix for the slack introduced by a 5 gear motion set compared to a 2 gear motion set as in a single speed reel........... its actually a threat to the longevity of the geartrain mechanism methinks.
( if the WFT was mine I would be putting that dog & sprin in the rotor & disabling the handle anti-reverse 7 putting up with the backlash in the 5- gear train.

Crystal balling ...........

A far better pathway for 2-speeding a spinner would be a simple 3 gear train utilising an internal planetary gear set for the 2 speeding, inside the main gear............this would reverse the rotation direction of the rotor & require mirror imaging of the rotor bail arm components.
..........Is that going to bother the reel function .......... Nup.
The gear selector & its release could work the same way as most conventional 2-speeds .............rotating release is a PITA.
- push the gear selector & push the release is the way to go .........and you want this on the outside of the handle , not inside its arc of movement ( as in the DAM example )

In all other respects the engineering of such a reel would be the same as current single speed versions.

There are two (2) downsides of a 2-speed spinner design :-
ONE........is that an internal planetary gear to the main gear , even in high speed will reduce the effective high gear ratio of the maingear & rotor pinion.
This can be compensated by increasing the maingear ratio or the spool diameter or a bit of both...........easily accommodated to maintain retrieve rate..............that is really what gear ratio is about anyway.

The other........ is the torsional strength of the oscillating spool shaft.
The problem here is a bit complicated..............but stick with me.........
The rotating head design of a spinner does not provide a constant radial torque to the spool shaft as it rotates,( as in a conventional )
On a spinner the torque load increases as the bail arm roller moves away from the rod and decreases as the bail arm moves towards the rod as the rotor revolves.
This radial torque is many times higher in a spinner than in a conventional.
Its why you have to drop the rod to retrieve line with a spinner and the line tension in doing this is a lot lower than what can be achieved with a conventional during the pump & wind caper.
ie a conventional can crank the rod down under tension............a spinner can only do this under very much lower tension.
So providing a low gear to a spinner will directly increase the available radial torque that can be generated on the spool oscillating shaft by about a factor of 2 ( the typical difference between high & low gear ratios in a 2-speed reel ).
This means that a 2-speed spinner needs a larger diameter oscillating shaft so it doesn't simply bend permanently when the spinner is being cranked hard in low gear.
ie
it needs roughly twice the rigidity of the spool oscillating shaft compared to a single speed.
ie bigger shaft .........bigger pinion..........bigger main gear = a bigger reel body = a lot more weight, but the basic engineering is available.

All problems that the reel designer has to deal with in designing a 2-speed spinner for "cows" or AJs , yellows, grouper, and other beasties that pull hard & like structure...............after all that is the role that a 2-speed spinner is most desired for.

2C IMHO
 

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Large Member
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1,065 Posts
i second this WOW. alan hawk is the master of spinning reels, and alan tani is the master of conventional reels. reading for both is very educational. thanks for the link.
 
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