Using the Rail--Discussion Thread:

[Snagged]

Russ,
You just lost points on your IQ test, those are mule deer in Wyoming and catching trout there is/was easy.

[tbuckshot]

OK guys, if you put your macho aside for just a minute let's try to make some sense of this. I don't use the rail on private boats (what rail?). On party boats, the real test is "can you get that fish on the deck?" There are 20-39 other anglers on board that are all potential sand traps or lateral hazards. I use any means possible to beat the odds. Illegal? I respect IGFA, but also realize they absolutely penalize party boat fishing. However, a really rich guy could charter the boat himself for about a month and set all kinds of world records. Now try it with 39 of your favorite friends on board (some of which you have never met and their kids). Think about it.

[gman]

its not about being macho, opinions difer, i have fished many party styled boats and for me its not neccisary if your using the right tackle

[Uncle Russ]

snagged: I won't argue with you about the trout--I didn't have any gear on that trip but the fish were big--I would say over 16 inches from the uh, "rise forms." Ahem. But as to the deer, you are sooooo wrong antler breath! In Wyoming, the mulies typically live in the mountains and the badlands (essentially the BLM lands) and the whitetails--oh my God, the whitetails--they live down in the river bottoms and feed on alfalfa and other crops. I have lived in Texas all my life and although I have not had the means to hunt in the prime brush country, I have seen many of the deer that come out of there and quite a few on the hoof. And on one trip to the farm country soutwest of the Big Horns, I saw the 5 largest whitetails I have ever observed in the wild. One might have grossed over 170. As it was, I put a bullet into one that I eventually measured at a net of 155. The reason it did not end up my deer was that one of my dear "hosts" followed it up and finished it off and took it for himself--the same guy going after the trout with corn. But that's another story.

As to using the rail, (I now realize I have once again hijacked my own thread) do you realize that noone has to this point discussed preferred methods, but only the wisdom/morality of doing so. With all respect, I don't think those who say it is not necessary are doing so as the result of machismo, but I would like to hear how folks do it, especially on head boats like the Big E. I can imagine all sorts of folks saying that it would be immoral or unnecessary to make love to triplet virgins for 5 nights in a row. But I would rather learn methods and techniques.

Russ

Russ

[bunile]

That is the only way that ksong can break a fishing pole, That was really a macho-man thing to me. Those plates and harnesses are more of the braces and cheating than just arms or crotches. I think that whatever takes the longest and lets the guys/gals next to you have to wait and sip their lattes until they get cold and you get to be the star of the show for 15minutes, that is why we all go fishing anyways, to make other guys/gals get mad when we get the biggest fish and all they have is cold coffee grounds in their tender 'lil fingers waving them back and forth saying "That's not eligible for a new world record". I just want to see pictures of Mr. Bill breaking the boats rail with his elbows and the fishing line sawing the boat in half while he is palming his reel drinking a steaming Latte with a shot of green tea 'decaf style'. Bumper stickers are so you know that they won't fall of the truck if the bolts come too loose.

[gman]

Russ,

Anthony and I generally will use harnesses if necissary but will only clip in if it is a big fish. We are used to chasing pretty big ones up here with our Lattes (ha ha) so honestly its second nature. Generally once bit we will let teh fish run for a second or two and engage the drag. We will only clip in if needed.

Using a low profile bucket style harness like the Black Magic uses your own weight against the fish just by rocking back and reeling forward even on party boats. There is no cheating as suggested, its your body movement that will determine the outcome and is transfering the fight from your arms to your legs where you have the most power. I would however suggest unclipping during the end game incase the tuna is making really tight circles and or you are using a short stick of less than 5'6 so you don't chaffe the leader

Like i said earlier there are several ways to beat a fish, harness, rail, under arm as long as you are happy and the fish is dead on the deck it doesn't matter

[ksong]

While long range boats out of San Diego have lower rail position to facilitate the use of harness, it is hard to fight with harness on the East Coast party boats as the rail position is high. The use of rail is not right or wrong thing, but an option to fight tuna effective. While private boat goers don't feel necessary the use of the rail, party boat goers think it is necessary. Recently even long rang boats encourage the use of rail for cow.
I feel the use of fighting chair is more cheating than the use of the rail. I even feel cheated when I use a fighting belt to work jigs and poppers. Everybody has his own standard and use whatever you feel necessary as you fish for yourself. As I said before I am not going to use any harness to fight tuna under 200 lbs except for spinniing reels for my enjoyment and developing new fighting techniques.

I broke broke two rods while tuna jigging over 20 years. Both rods are from Japanese Cosmotech blanks. I liked the blanks for tuna jigging so much as they are super light, but strong. Those blanks were originally developed for cod fishing, but I found the blanks are adequate for tuna jigging. I shouldn' u chave used the rods for the use of rail as the wall of the blanks are very thin.
The first rod from Cosmetech blank got broke at foregrip spot where I touched the rail after years and years use. I must caught several hundred tuna with the single rod.

The second Cosmetech rod was broken as you see in the picutres. My porta-rail position is so high on the particular boat it was not comfortable position to fight a tuna using the rail. I didn't get any hit while jigging 5 - 6 hours and I was using the rail to jig as I got tired. Then a big bluefin tuna estimated over 150 lbs hit my jig and I knew I was in trouble when the big tuna charged under the boat and I couldn't move my rod at all.
It was my fault first of all that I shouldn't have used the thin rod for the railing again and I shouldn't have fought with such a high rail position knowing that big tuna were around.

When you feel your tuna jigging rods are super light, don't use the rod for the railing as those rods have invariably thin wall. However I feel comfortable rods like GUSA Wahoo or Calstar 700H/700XH blanks for the use of the rail.

[Snagged]

Russ,
Who in their right mind would go to Wyoming and stay in the flatlands? The highcountry is where the beauty is.

[Uncle Russ]

snagged: Correct on the beauty aspect--lowland Wyoming is kind of like Kansas with swampland. But that is where the huge whitetails live--for a long time the number 2 typical WT was from that country. A lot of people think the next number 1 will come from there.

A younger friend and I have 15 preference points for a high country Colorado mulie hunt which we will probably cash in next year. We have always taken in heavy backpacks, but if we can find a good guide, we may take that option to be able to cover more country. We are picking our area--there are 14 of them--in the past we have carrie in as much as 90-100 pounds each, but that is sheer torment and I'm not certain I want to do that now. Horses are sounding better--or an ultra-light downsized pack/rifle/etc. which I am currently putting together--just in case. That country is beautiful in late August and early September.

Russ

[BretABaker]

Originally Posted by ksong

While long range boats out of San Diego have lower rail position to facilitate the use of harness, it is hard to fight with harness on the East Coast party boats as the rail position is high. The use of rail is not right or wrong thing, but an option to fight tuna effective. While private boat goers don't feel necessary the use of the rail, party boat goers think it is necessary. Recently even long rang boats encourage the use of rail for cow.

yep - this is why I had a chunking stick built at 6'6" and a longer butt as opposed to shorter with a short butt which would be ideal for using a harness. east coast party boats have high rails (which is what i fished when i had it built) - this rod would be easier to use on those. when i fished with it in venice in a harness, i noticed it would have been easier with a shorter butt, putting the reel closer to me. I'm going to buy a shorter butt and put it on there next time i fish with it.

i like harnesses, they're much more convenient. i can fight fish just fine without one, but it's nice to be in one as well. its just preference. i can't really use a rail, it just doesn't fit right with me.

i agree and do not like to use a chair. at some point i hope to catch something huge standup.