Jigging - Conventional vs Spinning - Page 2

fathom · 01-29-2008, 01:40 PM

The advantage of conventional is to have 2 speed reel. You will apreciate it when you hook a larger tuna.

If you can only afford one setup a power gear spinner with 7' rod with 80lb. rating will cast popper or jig.

HUNTER II · 01-29-2008, 01:49 PM

I'm definetly hearing to stay a way from the Trevalas. Just for my edification are you guys talking about the older style trevala (TC4) or the new style TC4F - I went to a seminar this weekend and the Shimano rep swore that the new TC4F woould not noodle like the old TC4. The first 2.5 ' noodles and then the last 3 +' are supposed to be stiff as a ____ . The theory is that the rod moves the fishes end of the lever back closer to the fisherman which moves the advantage away from the tip. The noodling part is important for creating the correct jig action.
I have been building rods for years and built a spinner based on a 7' Calstar Grafite 700H. Last summer I cast into a school of what we thought were 75 - 90 lb BFT's. As soon as my lure hit the water my buddy said he thought I might be sorry - 1.5 hrs later I had a 125 lb fish with in 50 ft of the boat but I couldn't finish it because the blank rolled up on its self. It was rough and I was tired so I palmed the 14000 series Spheros (which worked like a charm) and broke the fish off. I checked the drag and the scale read 18 lbs. I took 6" of the end and gave up some casting distance, but significantly stiffened the rod. It will now lift a 25 lb weight which I am using as a standard. As a popping rod it will be fine, but I think it now is too stiff to be an effective jigging rod. Tore my achilles right after that so I was done for the season.

DeepBlueGulf · 01-29-2008, 02:05 PM

The Trevalas do not have any lifting power, but if you use a 2-speed conventional reel, you can lay the foregrip on the rail, and point the rod at the fish and reel him in using low gear. Not easy, and not fast, but better than trying to lift the fish with a noodle rod. In my opinion that goes for all the conventional rods that start bottoming out, you've got to point and reel.

Spinners you cannot do that with, and if you have a high gear ratio, well, then heaven help you! I haven't even fished it, but I've already thought about swapping my new Sustain for a Twinpower, just to get the lower gear.

DBG

Sea Crappie · 01-29-2008, 02:26 PM

Maybe i'm missing something here, but how is it your rod lifts more weight now that you've trimmed the tip? The deflection profile of the 700H remains the same, you've just made the rod "feel" stiffer. Another way of putting it is the lock-up point is no further from your hands than before the trimming, meaning the length of your effective lever on the fish remains unchanged (at least w/ the rod bottomed out).

ksong · 01-29-2008, 02:41 PM

Once you get brainwashed by Shimano's propaganda and their personnel, there is no cure but to use their products until you realize by yourself after buying and using them.

HUNTER II · 01-29-2008, 02:50 PM

Sea Crappie - Not sure where you are coming from - the CALSTAR SPECS for this rod are 700H - 7' - 30-80 - Ex-Fast - J/L 40-50 lb. With an extra fast action most if not all of the rod bend is in the upper 25% of the rod. By removing the tip section where most of the flexing is occuring the rod blank as I see it must get stiffer.

HUNTER II · 01-29-2008, 03:00 PM

WOW - you guys don't like Shimano stuff at all - the year before last I caught 30 school bluefin to 100 lbs all on various combinations of Shimano Reels with zero issues. In fact our primary spinning reel was a 6500 Baitrunner and our trolling reels were TLD 25's. In 2007 we got 10 before I tore my achilles all of which were taken on Shimano Reels and some Shimano Beastmaster Rods. I love the old Beastmaster stuff and the Baitrunner, Spheros, and TLD stuff have served me well.

thenewkid · 01-29-2008, 03:06 PM

Ahh i wouldnt say that.... its quite the opposite. most of this board hates the trevalas only when they are used beyond the capabilities. like glenn aka gman said they are really good inshore rods. other than that? this bored loves shimano overall like the stella, tiagra, tld's, spheros, and all those will find great praise from most on this board.

BretABaker · 01-29-2008, 03:12 PM

I don't have a problem with most of shimano's gear - though in general I prefer Daiwa. I just think they really did a great job (as kilsong said) at spinning their propaganda about their glorified trout rod (read: trevala). I'd use them if I was using 20lb test - but not 80.

ksong · 01-29-2008, 03:20 PM

2/3 of my reels I currrently use are Shimano's from fluke to tuna.

01-29-2008, 02:26 PM	#14 (permalink)
Sea Crappie Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 206	Maybe i'm missing something here, but how is it your rod lifts more weight now that you've trimmed the tip? The deflection profile of the 700H remains the same, you've just made the rod "feel" stiffer. Another way of putting it is the lock-up point is no further from your hands than before the trimming, meaning the length of your effective lever on the fish remains unchanged (at least w/ the rod bottomed out). __________________ "Vegetarians, and their Hezbollah-like splinter faction, the vegans, are a persistent irritant to any chef worth a damn. To me, life without veal stock, pork fat, sausage, organ meat, demi-glace, or even stinky cheese is a life not worth living. Vegetarians are the enemy of everything good and decent in the human spirit, and an affront to all I stand for..........." Anthony Bourdain

01-29-2008, 02:41 PM	#15 (permalink)
ksong Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,418	Once you get brainwashed by Shimano's propaganda and their personnel, there is no cure but to use their products until you realize by yourself after buying and using them. Last edited by ksong : 01-29-2008 at 02:44 PM.

01-29-2008, 03:06 PM	#18 (permalink)
thenewkid Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: ct Posts: 246	Ahh i wouldnt say that.... its quite the opposite. most of this board hates the trevalas only when they are used beyond the capabilities. like glenn aka gman said they are really good inshore rods. other than that? this bored loves shimano overall like the stella, tiagra, tld's, spheros, and all those will find great praise from most on this board. __________________ ~Tony~ You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on. A man's got to believe in something. I believe I'll have another drink.

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01-29-2008, 01:40 PM	#11 (permalink)
fathom Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: cedar creek Tx Posts: 268	The advantage of conventional is to have 2 speed reel. You will apreciate it when you hook a larger tuna. If you can only afford one setup a power gear spinner with 7' rod with 80lb. rating will cast popper or jig.

01-29-2008, 01:49 PM	#12 (permalink)
HUNTER II Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Massachusetts North Shore Posts: 45	I'm definetly hearing to stay a way from the Trevalas. Just for my edification are you guys talking about the older style trevala (TC4) or the new style TC4F - I went to a seminar this weekend and the Shimano rep swore that the new TC4F woould not noodle like the old TC4. The first 2.5 ' noodles and then the last 3 +' are supposed to be stiff as a ____ . The theory is that the rod moves the fishes end of the lever back closer to the fisherman which moves the advantage away from the tip. The noodling part is important for creating the correct jig action. I have been building rods for years and built a spinner based on a 7' Calstar Grafite 700H. Last summer I cast into a school of what we thought were 75 - 90 lb BFT's. As soon as my lure hit the water my buddy said he thought I might be sorry - 1.5 hrs later I had a 125 lb fish with in 50 ft of the boat but I couldn't finish it because the blank rolled up on its self. It was rough and I was tired so I palmed the 14000 series Spheros (which worked like a charm) and broke the fish off. I checked the drag and the scale read 18 lbs. I took 6" of the end and gave up some casting distance, but significantly stiffened the rod. It will now lift a 25 lb weight which I am using as a standard. As a popping rod it will be fine, but I think it now is too stiff to be an effective jigging rod. Tore my achilles right after that so I was done for the season.

01-29-2008, 02:05 PM	#13 (permalink)
DeepBlueGulf Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 623	The Trevalas do not have any lifting power, but if you use a 2-speed conventional reel, you can lay the foregrip on the rail, and point the rod at the fish and reel him in using low gear. Not easy, and not fast, but better than trying to lift the fish with a noodle rod. In my opinion that goes for all the conventional rods that start bottoming out, you've got to point and reel. Spinners you cannot do that with, and if you have a high gear ratio, well, then heaven help you! I haven't even fished it, but I've already thought about swapping my new Sustain for a Twinpower, just to get the lower gear. DBG

01-29-2008, 02:50 PM	#16 (permalink)
HUNTER II Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Massachusetts North Shore Posts: 45	Sea Crappie - Not sure where you are coming from - the CALSTAR SPECS for this rod are 700H - 7' - 30-80 - Ex-Fast - J/L 40-50 lb. With an extra fast action most if not all of the rod bend is in the upper 25% of the rod. By removing the tip section where most of the flexing is occuring the rod blank as I see it must get stiffer.

01-29-2008, 03:00 PM	#17 (permalink)
HUNTER II Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Massachusetts North Shore Posts: 45	WOW - you guys don't like Shimano stuff at all - the year before last I caught 30 school bluefin to 100 lbs all on various combinations of Shimano Reels with zero issues. In fact our primary spinning reel was a 6500 Baitrunner and our trolling reels were TLD 25's. In 2007 we got 10 before I tore my achilles all of which were taken on Shimano Reels and some Shimano Beastmaster Rods. I love the old Beastmaster stuff and the Baitrunner, Spheros, and TLD stuff have served me well.

01-29-2008, 03:12 PM	#19 (permalink)
BretABaker Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Pearland, TX Posts: 1,293	I don't have a problem with most of shimano's gear - though in general I prefer Daiwa. I just think they really did a great job (as kilsong said) at spinning their propaganda about their glorified trout rod (read: trevala). I'd use them if I was using 20lb test - but not 80.

01-29-2008, 03:20 PM	#20 (permalink)
ksong Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,418	2/3 of my reels I currrently use are Shimano's from fluke to tuna.

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