wet drags vs dry - Page 2

RoadDawg · 04-17-2007, 11:33 AM

Last night I went through a Accurate Boss 870 and lubed the drags. It now seems that I cant get enough drag. It doesnt seem that the Boss have very much drag adjustment. The disc seemed ok, could they be worn out??

alantani · 04-21-2007, 02:31 PM

accurate now uses cal's grease. it is applied to the spool and both sides of the drag washer. then the excess is wiped off the working surface of the drag washer. even if left on, you should be able to work it in and get the same amount of drag. they really don't wear out, either.

does your model have belleville spring washers? if so, how are they oriented? alan

Dr Rob · 05-25-2007, 04:16 AM

..."he's going to put together a contraption so that i can lock down a penn 80 international, set the drags to 50#, tie off the line to a digital scale, find some way to measure the temperature of the drag disc, and give me continuous readings of handle rpm, pounds of drag pressure and temperature all as a function of time..."

That's pretty much what I have already. It's a pretty good rig, but I'm finding it has some shortcomings. I'll have to make another one with a few improvements. It really takes a long time to go through a number of materials in an orderly fashion.

Captdeej, about using amperage draw... that's pretty clever; hadn't thought of that. On the other hand, it is also a good thing to aspire to maintain a real-world application scenario as far as possible. I mean, there are dedicated tribometers available, but they remove the components and materials from their environment. Also bear in mind that this talk of the various drag materials is only part of the equation of a functioning drag. The sum total of all components is what does it.

.

Dr Rob · 05-25-2007, 04:29 AM

There is more to ther picture than just yes-or-no, grease-or-not. Sometimes it works, other times not. As in the pic above, one of those materials performs wonderfully without grease. Smooth, flat curve at all temperatures and pressures.. excellent, just excellent. On test #2 with grease, the drag performed so badly it was just horrendous; never seen anything like it. Jerks, spikes up to double the set drag, runout all over... jeez. Same goes for another material I tested just last week. Too bad; had good hopes for that one.

Temperature, speed, fade and runout are all things I've written about ad tedium and discussed for years with both Cal and Jack; it's nothing new.

On the other hand, some of those materials exhibit a slight stick-slip or stiction ratio, which is normal, that can largely be eradicated by use of a proper lubricant. Other lubricants are a nightmare.

Long story.
.

Dr Rob · 05-25-2007, 04:43 AM

The RDS drag is a very intriguing innovation, one that I too have considered but not taken further than just a thought. It utilizes an entirely different concept rather than this incessant development-inside-the-box thinking we have now.

The man behind it is a very capable individual; it isn't just a newfangled gizmo. I think it has been somewhat misunderstood though-- it does nothing to adjust or compensate for line level on the spool. The graph depicted above demonstrates a nice flattish curve over time, but I think the graph has been clipped somewhat... what looks like a 25% drop may rather be only a pound; there are no units of measure visible.

There are however reams of graphs and charts available on the subject; he has done quite a lot of work on it. Whether or not it is so great in the long run, remains to be seen. I just appreciate the innovative thinking.

Re carbon fiber as per HT-100 being as good, yes, quite possibly. wet or dry.
.

skip · 03-01-2008, 02:37 PM

Alan,

Have you managed to get your hands on an Alutecnos and see how they perform with a wet drag?

alantani · 03-02-2008, 05:08 PM

they are not very popular out here in california. i don't think i've ever even see one in person. alan

bunile · 03-27-2008, 07:50 PM

does the drag actually double when the line coming off the reel is 1/2 the diameter as is when set in full spool dia. I mean set at full spool to 10lbs. then at 1/2 full spool the drag will hold at 20lbs. In exact proportions or "NEARLY THAT RATIO ?" That change would happen more rapidly when using thicker mono, the diameter reducing rapidly when line is being pulled off. So , when the reel is full leave the drag set, when the fish takes alot of line out and the spool is getting smaller, are you supposed to lessen the drag or not?

Fishhead56 · 03-27-2008, 09:07 PM

The drag at the spool remains the same.

The tension at the hook and along the line
is the variable.
And there are many variables to be considered.

K2
Son of Hyperman

STx Fisherman · 03-27-2008, 09:45 PM

Fishhead56....I can see the resemblance to Hyperman.

I am now wondering if Bunile is related to Steven Tyler from Aerosmith...

03-27-2008, 07:50 PM	#18 (permalink)
bunile Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: surf Posts: 90	does the drag actually double when the line coming off the reel is 1/2 the diameter as is when set in full spool dia. I mean set at full spool to 10lbs. then at 1/2 full spool the drag will hold at 20lbs. In exact proportions or "NEARLY THAT RATIO ?" That change would happen more rapidly when using thicker mono, the diameter reducing rapidly when line is being pulled off. So , when the reel is full leave the drag set, when the fish takes alot of line out and the spool is getting smaller, are you supposed to lessen the drag or not? __________________ IT STAYS WITH YOU Last edited by bunile : 03-27-2008 at 07:54 PM.

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04-17-2007, 11:33 AM	#11 (permalink)
RoadDawg Junior member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1	Last night I went through a Accurate Boss 870 and lubed the drags. It now seems that I cant get enough drag. It doesnt seem that the Boss have very much drag adjustment. The disc seemed ok, could they be worn out??

04-21-2007, 02:31 PM	#12 (permalink)
alantani Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: saratoga, ca Posts: 151	accurate now uses cal's grease. it is applied to the spool and both sides of the drag washer. then the excess is wiped off the working surface of the drag washer. even if left on, you should be able to work it in and get the same amount of drag. they really don't wear out, either. does your model have belleville spring washers? if so, how are they oriented? alan

05-25-2007, 04:16 AM	#13 (permalink)
Dr Rob Junior member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 4	..."he's going to put together a contraption so that i can lock down a penn 80 international, set the drags to 50#, tie off the line to a digital scale, find some way to measure the temperature of the drag disc, and give me continuous readings of handle rpm, pounds of drag pressure and temperature all as a function of time..." That's pretty much what I have already. It's a pretty good rig, but I'm finding it has some shortcomings. I'll have to make another one with a few improvements. It really takes a long time to go through a number of materials in an orderly fashion. Captdeej, about using amperage draw... that's pretty clever; hadn't thought of that. On the other hand, it is also a good thing to aspire to maintain a real-world application scenario as far as possible. I mean, there are dedicated tribometers available, but they remove the components and materials from their environment. Also bear in mind that this talk of the various drag materials is only part of the equation of a functioning drag. The sum total of all components is what does it. .

05-25-2007, 04:29 AM	#14 (permalink)
Dr Rob Junior member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 4	There is more to ther picture than just yes-or-no, grease-or-not. Sometimes it works, other times not. As in the pic above, one of those materials performs wonderfully without grease. Smooth, flat curve at all temperatures and pressures.. excellent, just excellent. On test #2 with grease, the drag performed so badly it was just horrendous; never seen anything like it. Jerks, spikes up to double the set drag, runout all over... jeez. Same goes for another material I tested just last week. Too bad; had good hopes for that one. Temperature, speed, fade and runout are all things I've written about ad tedium and discussed for years with both Cal and Jack; it's nothing new. On the other hand, some of those materials exhibit a slight stick-slip or stiction ratio, which is normal, that can largely be eradicated by use of a proper lubricant. Other lubricants are a nightmare. Long story. .

05-25-2007, 04:43 AM	#15 (permalink)
Dr Rob Junior member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 4	The RDS drag is a very intriguing innovation, one that I too have considered but not taken further than just a thought. It utilizes an entirely different concept rather than this incessant development-inside-the-box thinking we have now. The man behind it is a very capable individual; it isn't just a newfangled gizmo. I think it has been somewhat misunderstood though-- it does nothing to adjust or compensate for line level on the spool. The graph depicted above demonstrates a nice flattish curve over time, but I think the graph has been clipped somewhat... what looks like a 25% drop may rather be only a pound; there are no units of measure visible. There are however reams of graphs and charts available on the subject; he has done quite a lot of work on it. Whether or not it is so great in the long run, remains to be seen. I just appreciate the innovative thinking. Re carbon fiber as per HT-100 being as good, yes, quite possibly. wet or dry. .

03-01-2008, 02:37 PM	#16 (permalink)
skip Junior member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Malta, Europe Posts: 27	Alan, Have you managed to get your hands on an Alutecnos and see how they perform with a wet drag?

03-02-2008, 05:08 PM	#17 (permalink)
alantani Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: saratoga, ca Posts: 151	they are not very popular out here in california. i don't think i've ever even see one in person. alan

03-27-2008, 09:07 PM	#19 (permalink)
Fishhead56 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Galveston County Posts: 224	The drag at the spool remains the same. The tension at the hook and along the line is the variable. And there are many variables to be considered. K2 Son of Hyperman

03-27-2008, 09:45 PM	#20 (permalink)
STx Fisherman Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 458	Fishhead56....I can see the resemblance to Hyperman. I am now wondering if Bunile is related to Steven Tyler from Aerosmith...

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