Terminal-Tackle Knot Strength and Drag

[pametfisher]

There are always a lot of questions in these forums about the "best" knot. Sometimes it's about how to connect braid to mono/fluoro and sometimes about connecting mono/fluoro to terminal tackle. After a lot of testing of various knots to tie mono/fluoro to lures, swivels and solid rings, I've concluded that the best knot is the one that a fisherman can tie with the greatest precision under pressure. The reason I say that is every knot, other than the Bimini Twist, has very sharp turns inside it that results in a loss of about 40% of the line's true strength. Or saying it another way, terminal tackle knots are about 60% strong--whether it's a Uni, Palomar, Clinch, No-Name, or etc.

If you believe (and you should) that the initial drag you carefully set increases as you let line out on a deep drop, or as a fish pulls line (or both). In the tables below, I've listed some critical numbers for terminal-tackle mono/fluoro knots. (I've used the CODE function to get the data into table form.)

Definitions:

• Line Strength: What's marked on the box
• Actual Strength: What the breaking strength is assuming a 20% overtest (you should check yours if you're into performance fishing
• Knotted Strength: The force at which a 60% knot would break
• Max Drag: Highest drag level that you want your knot to experience. I've assumed 2/3 of the knot strength.
• Initial Drag: Greatest drag you should set with a full spool if you don't want to exceed Max Drag with about half the line out.
• Min Initial Drag: Greatest drag you should set with a full spool if you don't want to exceed Max Drag with all the line out. (2.5:1 full to empty ratio)

In the two tables below, I've run the numbers for ordinary knots and then again for a mini Bimini Twist that I tied in 80# mono (photo attached). As a comparison look at how different the numbers are for 80# line, highlighted in red. Also, take a close look at how the numbers work out for a 50# leader with the 20% overtest assumption I've made.

Line       Actual       Knotted       Max         Initial     Min Initial
Strength   Strength     Strength      Drag        Drag          Drag
--------   --------     --------      -------     --------     -------
   50#      60 lbs.      36 lbs.      24 lbs.     16 lbs.       10 lbs.
   60#      72 lbs.      43 lbs.      28 lbs.     18 lbs.       11 lbs.
   80#      96 lbs.      58 lbs.      39 lbs.     26 lbs.       16 lbs.
  100#     120 lbs.      72 lbs.      48 lbs.     32 lbs.       19 lbs.
  130#     156 lbs.      94 lbs.      63 lbs.     42 lbs.       25 lbs.

Line       Actual     Bimini Twist    Max         Initial     Min Initial
Strength   Strength     Strength      Drag        Drag          Drag
--------   --------     --------      -------     --------     -------
   50#      60 lbs.      60 lbs.      40 lbs.     27 lbs.       16 lbs.
   60#      72 lbs.      72 lbs.      48 lbs.     32 lbs.       19 lbs.
   80#      96 lbs.      96 lbs.      64 lbs.     43 lbs.       25 lbs.
  100#     120 lbs.     120 lbs.      80 lbs.     53 lbs.       32 lbs.
  130#     156 lbs.     156 lbs.     104 lbs.     69 lbs.       42 lbs.  

Lastly, the mini Bimini Twist was made by first twisting the mono enough to make about an inch of tight twists, and then hand-wrapping the top layer from the top of the knot down to the loop and securing it in the usual way. (The normal method of expanding the loop to create the top wraps requires that you start with a lot more twists and leads to a much larger loop.)

[word-doctor]

Great information, as per-usual.

[Iliveoutside]

Good information.

Are you suggesting the mini bimini for a terminal connection?

[pametfisher]

Originally Posted by Iliveoutside

Good information.

Are you suggesting the mini bimini for a terminal connection?

I'm going to go back and change the highlighting. For lighter leaders, you get the same strength (but not abrasion resistance) with a 50# leader and Bimini that you get with an 80# leader and ordinary knot. So the Bimini might have a role when it is made small.

[Locke N Load]

Fantastic data!

What I take from it is to use quality connections (threaded/spliced hollow core spectra, crimps or a knot you trust - for me it is a double palomar-which I believe is more than 60% strong) and remember to back off on your drag if you get low on the spool. Nice to have some actual calculations to back up the theories. Another thing is always check your line and connections before going out, after a bunch of casts and after every fish.

[Dave Nowlin]

Have you tried a well lubed and carefully cinched up Double San Diegi Jam Knot? I believe the breaking strength will greatly increase with this knot. In fact if you do a little research on the web there is an article a fellow wrote covering this very subject where a knot testing machine was used. The result varied considerably, depending on how the knot was manipulated as it was cinched up. Little things like attention to detail in this regard will yield better knots for all of us.

[pametfisher]

Originally Posted by Dave Nowlin

Have you tried a well lubed and carefully cinched up Double San Diegi Jam Knot? I believe the breaking strength will greatly increase with this knot. In fact if you do a little research on the web there is an article a fellow wrote covering this very subject where a knot testing machine was used. The result varied considerably, depending on how the knot was manipulated as it was cinched up. Little things like attention to detail in this regard will yield better knots for all of us.

The "result varied considerably" above is an important point.

In order for one knot to perform better than another, the critical bend inside the knot has to be less sharp--very hard to know, to measure or to rely on. There might be a "regular" knot (Uni, Palomar, Clinch, No-Name, San Diego, etc.) that, if carefully teased, etc. is a few percent better than another knot of the type. However, counting on that few percent difference doesn't make sense due to individual knot variation. (And let me be clear that I'm talking about well tied knots that have enough turns so that they don't slip before they break.)

(Digressing for a moment, the Slim Beauty is braid to mono/fluoro knot that is about 10% stronger than "regular" knots. And it is sort of slim up to about 50# mono. But a question to ask, "Is 66% strong that much better than 60% strong, considering that you can get 100% strong with a Wind-On leader, SIG knot, or P.R. knot?")

Back to Terminal Tackle knots, my "go-to" knot is the Jansik, made with two turns. It is fast, easy to make accurately, uses little leader material, stable (reacts well to side loading), easy to tie in even 200# mono, and small. I can tie it correctly every time. If another person's most accurately tied knot is a San Diego Jam knot, I would say that is best for them, because the regular knots are all "about" the same strength.

To me, it is smarter to say that all knots that sharply bend the line are 60% strong if well-made. And all knots that gently bend the line (Splice, P.R., Bimini, SIG, etc.) are 100% strong.

One thing I discovered when making the table, if you want to use a 50# leader for large fish (more stealth) then you can't use much drag (10 lbs.) if you want to have it hold to the bottom of the spool. A mini Bimini gets you up to 60% more drag capability.

[Basil]

Berkley will have a knot testing machine at our Canyon Runner seminars. Come by and tie your best.

Basil Pappas
BHP Tackle

[ksong]

Hi Roger, Happy New Year.
Another great post by you.
The knot test gives very valuable information.
I have been wondering why fishermen continue to use the knots which has only 60 percent beaking point. My conclusion is fishermen continue to use their favorite knots even the test results are not favorable.
I don't use any knots which gave failures three times. that is why I don't use uni to uni knots and albright knot to connect heavy braided lines and mono lines.
I continue to use 'no name knot' as it hasn't give any problem even for 200 - 200 lbs tuna last for over 20 years. Professional Capts in PV and Panama have been used perfection knots for 200 lbs leader without any apparent failure for cow and marlin for decades.
I'll continue test knots on the field.

[pametfisher]

Happy New Year!

Originally Posted by Basil

Berkley will have a knot testing machine at our Canyon Runner seminars. Come by and tie your best.

Basil Pappas
BHP Tackle

The chance to use a real line tester is a good opportunity. They are expensive to buy.

Anyone who is attending the show could tie up some knots to terminal tackle and get the knot strength tested and get their line strength tested so that they know its ABS (actual breaking strength).

Originally Posted by ksong

Hi Roger, Happy New Year.
Another great post by you.
The knot test gives very valuable information.
I have been wondering why fishermen continue to use the knots which has only 60 percent beaking point. My conclusion is fishermen continue to use their favorite knots even the test results are not favorable.
I don't use any knots which gave failures three times. that is why I don't use uni to uni knots and albright knot to connect heavy braided lines and mono lines.
I continue to use 'no name knot' as it hasn't give any problem even for 200 - 200 lbs tuna last for over 20 years. Professional Capts in PV and Panama have been used perfection knots for 200 lbs leader without any apparent failure for cow and marlin for decades.
I'll continue test knots on the field.

Hi Kil, The Perfection Loop is interesting. It's a good knot but basically in the 60% class (I tested it too) due to the Overhand knot in the mainline. But there is nothing wrong with a 60% knot that you can tie perfectly--your No-Name knot is a good example of that. I've watched you fish it lots of times and it doesn't fail in your fishing--the mark of a good knot.

It's interesting how if you're fishing 130 class gear, there are a lot of approaches to line, knots and drag systems that will work. When you move to light, high-performance tackle like jignpop and others sell, everything matters: the drag, connection to the spool, line ABS, leader connections, even the lowly Terminal Tackle knot. From the table at the start of this thread, a mini-Bimini and 50# leader can give the same strength (but not abrasion resistance) as an 80# leader with a Clinch or Uni.

Another thing to see in the tables is that I've assumed a 20% overtest for the line. Imagine that you bought "thin", "stretchy" shock leader that didn't overtest by 20% ... the numbers with a 60% knot look like this:

Line       Actual       Knotted       Max         Initial     Min Initial
Strength   Strength     Strength      Drag        Drag          Drag
--------   --------     --------      -------     --------     -------
   50#      50 lbs.      30 lbs.      20 lbs.     13 lbs.        8 lbs.
   60#      60 lbs.      36 lbs.      24 lbs.     16 lbs.       10 lbs.
   80#      80 lbs.      48 lbs.      32 lbs.     22 lbs.       13 lbs.
  100#     100 lbs.      60 lbs.      40 lbs.     27 lbs.       16 lbs.
  130#     130 lbs.      78 lbs.      52 lbs.     35 lbs.       21 lbs.

You can see from the above numbers that even an 80# leader made from material that doesn't overtest, on a deep drop, should be limited to an initial drag of 13 lbs. if you want it to hold to something near the bottom of the spool. Somewhat surprising.