Popping in Gulf: Max Lure Weight

Uncle Russ · 11-28-2006, 11:35 AM

With regard to popping for YFT in the GOM--what, in your various opinions, would be the heaviest popper (or other lure for that matter) you would ever want to cast a long distance from the boat? On the basis of the good advice on this board, I have decided to make the 5-ounce Tuna Hunter the primary popper I will take with me on the Big E, with the smaller Tuna Hunter Junior for smaller sizes. Also, of course, the flying fish lures. But would that be the biggest you would need?

As for other casting, does anyone ever try casting the lures meant primarily for trolling, such as the 2 1/2 ounce through 8 ounce Bonita type lures (for example, the Wahoo Hunters) on a topwater bite? Are diving plugs or swim baits ever used?

How about some of the heavier surface jigs? Do you cast them or just yo yo them?

My main reason for introducing this topic is to assist myself and various buddies with rod-selection for popping and other casting in the Gulf. I will only be casting with spinning gear, and own the 700H spinner (not certain of the maximum lure weight it can handle) and the Smith WRC 80P/35 (rated for up to 170 gram lures) that Randy sells. Either of these will handle the 5 ounce lures with no problem. However, if faced with a requirement to throw stuff much beyond 6 ounces any distance, I would probably want something rated for 200 - 250 grams--like the Smith Tokara. Even though I will likely never see a GT, and even if such a rod proved too heavy for Gulf casting, I could at least strap the Twinspin onto it and hold the rig lovingly, while sitting on the couch watching bass tournaments on television. In the alternative, it would make a helluva 50-weight flyrod.

Thanks,

Russ

Ragman · 11-28-2006, 11:58 AM

Hey Russ!

I think you've covered anything you'll need. BTW, I didn't realize the TH's weighed that much! lol

I know Grescobia caught at least one YFT throwing a 1 oz diamond jig during our GEM trip (working just like surface iron or casting long and letting it sink, then ripping back to the boat).

I've hooked footballs on 1-2 oz surface iron, but nothing sizable yet on iron during a topwater bite. But, I definitely think it's possible.

Swim baits are something not often tried, at least that I've seen, but I think is viable. Anything that will closely match a sardine or flyer, IMO, is worth throwing. Depending on current or depth, I will use 1 oz to 4 oz heads.

If you can cast lures from 1 - 5 oz, you should be fine!

Backlash Scott · 11-28-2006, 12:21 PM

If the currents moving well, I recommend putting out a swimbait & letting it sit in the current.We caught a lot of blackfin that way,last time I fished in Venice.If you want to try for yellowfin, you will need your jig heads to have much heavier hooks.Good luck,
Backlash Scott

Sea Crappie · 11-28-2006, 01:30 PM

Quote:

As for other casting, does anyone ever try casting the lures meant primarily for trolling, such as the 2 1/2 ounce through 8 ounce Bonita type lures (for example, the Wahoo Hunters) on a topwater bite? Are diving plugs or swim baits ever used?

The 6" Yo Zuri Bonita are great for casting to tuna (in purple and black and in Ahi). I like to use the double hooks (sharpen them). On a boat like the Big E, one trick to increase your catch w/ them is reel them in fast until they hit the edge of the light, then let it sink for a 10-15 second count and then start reeling REALLY FAST, as the lure runs to the surface it drives the YFT crazy. Sometimes they like it better than surface plugs. As far as diving lures Randy sells a new one that's like a souped up bang-o-lure meant for tuna (gotta get some myself). Good luck.

fathom · 11-29-2006, 11:31 AM

Sharpen hooks on tuna hunters and g.t. poppers! The tuna hunter jr. will hook up more.

Saw several fish caught on sub surface lures last trip.

The Storm swim baits did well also. Only saw one yft straighten hook. I don't know if you can upgrade stock hook as it is molded to internal weight.

Fathom

Uncle Russ · 11-29-2006, 01:57 PM

Interesting replies and thanks for the input. I guess flying fish, given their body type and the wings as an escape mechanism rarely get far from the surface. However, I wonder if you couldn't add enough weight to take one of the ones with swept-back wings (the kind that look like an old sabre jet) and add enough weight to get them down a couple of feet or so and that might be effective as subsurface. On the other hand, skipping them across the surface is probably more natural.

Russ

Anglers Pro Shop · 11-29-2006, 06:48 PM

Hey Russ,

Weight do not determine distance; correct and matching rod, line, lure weight makes the difference.

If you want a lure that will cast obsene distance in the class of WRC80P/35 rods, check out the below pic. These pencil poppers will fly at least 30% further than conventional shaped poppers.

Another way to ensure longer distance is to reduce leader length so the knot (Spectra and leader) is out of the rod tip (really short) but start with lesser initial drag for the shock during hookup, then squeezed it on after hook up. (remember to wrap your index fingers!! or you will end up with bloody spectra)

Uncle Russ · 11-29-2006, 09:01 PM

Ragman, Scott, and Crappie: (sounds kind of like a law firm doesn't it?) Those are great suggestions for lures--I have been wondering that noone ever seems to talk about anything but jiggin, popping, and chunking.

fathom: Are you saying that the juniors will draw more strikes, or rather that the hooks will set better?

I have actually thought about whether those big Storm plastics would work offshore since the hooks are at least somewhat substantial, but you are correct that they are molded to the weights, jiglike, and have a unique shape to them. With my luck, when I used one, that's when the only 400 pound YFT ever to be found in the GOM would inhale it.

Randy: I realize it is the balance of the whole rig that counts, (not to mention casting skill, which I need to work on.) I may have mentioned that I was able to cast the same 4-ounce lead casting spoon which I was only able to get 200 feet out of with my Calstar 700H, nearly 20 feet further. But I have a long way to go and I feel I should probably get at least 250 feet or more with that rod.

Actually, my whole reason for inquiring about the largest popper I would ever need, was that I hoped someone would say: "Uncle Russ, if you don't have a rig that can cast a 9-ounce lure, you ain't #$%&. That would give me an excuse to buy a Tokara from you.

Those pencil poppers definitely look like they would cast a mile, however from the look of them, if I cast them with the 80P/35, I might catch some flak for buying a popper that cost more than the rod.

Russ

Randy · 11-29-2006, 09:28 PM

Randy: I realize it is the balance of the whole rig that counts, (not to mention casting skill, which I need to work on.) I may have mentioned that I was able to cast the same 4-ounce lead casting spoon which I was only able to get 200 feet out of with my Calstar 700H, nearly 20 feet further. But I have a long way to go and I feel I should probably get at least 250 feet or more with that rod.

Actually, my whole reason for inquiring about the largest popper I would ever need, was that I hoped someone would say: "Uncle Russ, if you don't have a rig that can cast a 9-ounce lure, you ain't #$%&. That would give me an excuse to buy a Tokara from you.

Those pencil poppers definitely look like they would cast a mile, however from the look of them, if I cast them with the 80P/35, I might catch some flak for buying a popper that cost more than the rod.

Russ[/quote]

Russ,

Yes those poppers are costly, on average $40 a pop but if i can out cast everybody on the boat and get to the fish, that is really nothing considering the cost of going out fishing nowadays plus you'll never know whats beyond the norm...

Have fun!

Randy

SkeeterRonnie · 11-29-2006, 11:38 PM

swimbaits work. I like the tsunami (longer, more slender profile resembling a flying fish) I add some feathers into the sides to immitate a flying fish. First time I tried one, lost a YFT to a previous backlash that I didnt get out all the way. We were on the Gulf Eagle, deckhand from the Pelican brought my swimbait over from the mouth of one of thier 70# YFT!! LOL!

Some of the swimbaits have double hooks. (think they are classified as trolling style). If they dont, I add a stinger hook. I call them the "Funky Chicken"

11-28-2006, 11:35 AM	#1 (permalink)
Uncle Russ Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,143	Popping in Gulf: Max Lure Weight With regard to popping for YFT in the GOM--what, in your various opinions, would be the heaviest popper (or other lure for that matter) you would ever want to cast a long distance from the boat? On the basis of the good advice on this board, I have decided to make the 5-ounce Tuna Hunter the primary popper I will take with me on the Big E, with the smaller Tuna Hunter Junior for smaller sizes. Also, of course, the flying fish lures. But would that be the biggest you would need? As for other casting, does anyone ever try casting the lures meant primarily for trolling, such as the 2 1/2 ounce through 8 ounce Bonita type lures (for example, the Wahoo Hunters) on a topwater bite? Are diving plugs or swim baits ever used? How about some of the heavier surface jigs? Do you cast them or just yo yo them? My main reason for introducing this topic is to assist myself and various buddies with rod-selection for popping and other casting in the Gulf. I will only be casting with spinning gear, and own the 700H spinner (not certain of the maximum lure weight it can handle) and the Smith WRC 80P/35 (rated for up to 170 gram lures) that Randy sells. Either of these will handle the 5 ounce lures with no problem. However, if faced with a requirement to throw stuff much beyond 6 ounces any distance, I would probably want something rated for 200 - 250 grams--like the Smith Tokara. Even though I will likely never see a GT, and even if such a rod proved too heavy for Gulf casting, I could at least strap the Twinspin onto it and hold the rig lovingly, while sitting on the couch watching bass tournaments on television. In the alternative, it would make a helluva 50-weight flyrod. Thanks, Russ __________________ "Tschirhart: Helluva deal. You bait the hooks--I catch the fish!--Grimm." Last edited by Uncle Russ : 11-28-2006 at 11:47 AM.

11-28-2006, 11:58 AM	#2 (permalink)
Ragman Moderator Join Date: May 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 924	Hey Russ! I think you've covered anything you'll need. BTW, I didn't realize the TH's weighed that much! lol I know Grescobia caught at least one YFT throwing a 1 oz diamond jig during our GEM trip (working just like surface iron or casting long and letting it sink, then ripping back to the boat). I've hooked footballs on 1-2 oz surface iron, but nothing sizable yet on iron during a topwater bite. But, I definitely think it's possible. Swim baits are something not often tried, at least that I've seen, but I think is viable. Anything that will closely match a sardine or flyer, IMO, is worth throwing. Depending on current or depth, I will use 1 oz to 4 oz heads. If you can cast lures from 1 - 5 oz, you should be fine! __________________ Tom www.oceantackle.net *Go Hard or Go Home!*

11-29-2006, 11:31 AM	#5 (permalink)
fathom Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: cedar creek Tx Posts: 269	lures Sharpen hooks on tuna hunters and g.t. poppers! The tuna hunter jr. will hook up more. Saw several fish caught on sub surface lures last trip. The Storm swim baits did well also. Only saw one yft straighten hook. I don't know if you can upgrade stock hook as it is molded to internal weight. Fathom

11-29-2006, 01:57 PM	#6 (permalink)
Uncle Russ Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,143	Interesting replies and thanks for the input. I guess flying fish, given their body type and the wings as an escape mechanism rarely get far from the surface. However, I wonder if you couldn't add enough weight to take one of the ones with swept-back wings (the kind that look like an old sabre jet) and add enough weight to get them down a couple of feet or so and that might be effective as subsurface. On the other hand, skipping them across the surface is probably more natural. Russ __________________ "Tschirhart: Helluva deal. You bait the hooks--I catch the fish!--Grimm."

11-29-2006, 09:01 PM	#8 (permalink)
Uncle Russ Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,143	Ragman, Scott, and Crappie: (sounds kind of like a law firm doesn't it?) Those are great suggestions for lures--I have been wondering that noone ever seems to talk about anything but jiggin, popping, and chunking. fathom: Are you saying that the juniors will draw more strikes, or rather that the hooks will set better? I have actually thought about whether those big Storm plastics would work offshore since the hooks are at least somewhat substantial, but you are correct that they are molded to the weights, jiglike, and have a unique shape to them. With my luck, when I used one, that's when the only 400 pound YFT ever to be found in the GOM would inhale it. Randy: I realize it is the balance of the whole rig that counts, (not to mention casting skill, which I need to work on.) I may have mentioned that I was able to cast the same 4-ounce lead casting spoon which I was only able to get 200 feet out of with my Calstar 700H, nearly 20 feet further. But I have a long way to go and I feel I should probably get at least 250 feet or more with that rod. Actually, my whole reason for inquiring about the largest popper I would ever need, was that I hoped someone would say: "Uncle Russ, if you don't have a rig that can cast a 9-ounce lure, you ain't #$%&. That would give me an excuse to buy a Tokara from you. Those pencil poppers definitely look like they would cast a mile, however from the look of them, if I cast them with the 80P/35, I might catch some flak for buying a popper that cost more than the rod. Russ __________________ "Tschirhart: Helluva deal. You bait the hooks--I catch the fish!--Grimm."

11-28-2006, 12:21 PM	#3 (permalink)
Backlash Scott Junior member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 27	If the currents moving well, I recommend putting out a swimbait & letting it sit in the current.We caught a lot of blackfin that way,last time I fished in Venice.If you want to try for yellowfin, you will need your jig heads to have much heavier hooks.Good luck, Backlash Scott

11-29-2006, 09:28 PM	#9 (permalink)
Randy Junior member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 8	Randy: I realize it is the balance of the whole rig that counts, (not to mention casting skill, which I need to work on.) I may have mentioned that I was able to cast the same 4-ounce lead casting spoon which I was only able to get 200 feet out of with my Calstar 700H, nearly 20 feet further. But I have a long way to go and I feel I should probably get at least 250 feet or more with that rod. Actually, my whole reason for inquiring about the largest popper I would ever need, was that I hoped someone would say: "Uncle Russ, if you don't have a rig that can cast a 9-ounce lure, you ain't #$%&. That would give me an excuse to buy a Tokara from you. Those pencil poppers definitely look like they would cast a mile, however from the look of them, if I cast them with the 80P/35, I might catch some flak for buying a popper that cost more than the rod. Russ[/quote] Russ, Yes those poppers are costly, on average $40 a pop but if i can out cast everybody on the boat and get to the fish, that is really nothing considering the cost of going out fishing nowadays plus you'll never know whats beyond the norm... Have fun! Randy

11-29-2006, 11:38 PM	#10 (permalink)
SkeeterRonnie Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,288	swimbaits work. I like the tsunami (longer, more slender profile resembling a flying fish) I add some feathers into the sides to immitate a flying fish. First time I tried one, lost a YFT to a previous backlash that I didnt get out all the way. We were on the Gulf Eagle, deckhand from the Pelican brought my swimbait over from the mouth of one of thier 70# YFT!! LOL! Some of the swimbaits have double hooks. (think they are classified as trolling style). If they dont, I add a stinger hook. I call them the "Funky Chicken"

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