Leaders for Poppers

outofcontrol · 04-23-2008, 08:18 PM

I new to the popper game; so to my question is all this twisted leader stuff really nessary for throwing poppers in the Gulf. I have researched this topic on this forum and others and it seems to me the twisted leaders are overkill ( not trying to offend anyone ) for a 1000-3000 feet of water. I know good and well, I will not be able to rig one on the boat. If you are running a TL are the twists down to the real to grab with your finger for casting.

Does any one fish with say 65#braid to 10 feet or so of 80# mono or fluro leader with sucess?

Uncle Russ · 04-23-2008, 08:48 PM

I am no expert, but, based on advice I have received on this board, I have had good success in testing by tying a 40 turn Bimini in solid braid and attaching 3 feet of 60 or 80 pound fluorocarbon via a standard Albright knot. I know others here use others.

Russ

Ragman · 04-23-2008, 09:53 PM

Great question OOC!

I read of Hatidua or Fishordie -I believe- on Angler's Pro Shop forum explaining with pictures the advantages of a twisted leader for poppers.

You should search it out and at least try it. I lost the link or I would have built one to try. The explanations seemed it could be the best connection for casting poppers to tuna, and toothy, shallow reef fish with teeth.

Sea Crappie · 04-23-2008, 10:20 PM

I've never used a twisted leader (they do look pretty cool though). Jinkai or Varivas 80 to 130lb leader material is all I use for YFT and have absolutely no problem.

I choose these brands because the mono is supple but very strong and abrasion resistant. The softness is necessary to use a mid-knot or P-R knot to attach your spectra main line.

My leaders are typically long enough to get 3 wraps around the reel spool plus enough length to have the lure 3ft or so from the tip of the rod. I've never had a serious problem with abrasion during a normal YFT fight, just accumulated wear from many fish, especially if they're tail wrapped or the leader ends up between the deck and the fish after boating them. If the leader shows abrasion, I cut off and retie. Normally before a trip I precut and bag 15ft sections of leader, which makes it easy on the boat.

I normally end my leader w/ a heavy duty split ring / solid ring combo so I can switch lures w/o retying.

I'm not a fan of the short leader / swivel connection, but plenty of folks are and it seems to work for them.

Uncle Russ · 04-24-2008, 08:08 AM

SeaCrappie: You don't lose any casting distance with that setup, due to the heavier mono and the knot passing through the guides?

Russ

Sea Crappie · 04-24-2008, 08:48 AM

Russ,

If I lose any distance I haven't noticed. Good casting form has much more of an impact on your rod's performance than leader length. Of course if you're casting super light lures, I'd scale the leader weight down a bit.

The knot doesn't pose an issue as I only use the mid-knot or p-r knot, both of which lie flush w/ the leader and do not impede casting in any way. I would not use this system without these knots. They've never broken on me. After lots of home testing w/ a scale, it seems to me that you can't expect better than 75% strength w/ a spectra bimini.

I like this system for many reasons, the most important being that:

1. I can cast with mono on my finger much better than w/ spectra. Plus there are only 2 connections, 1 line to leader and 1 leader to solid ring.

2. I've seen many tail wrapped tuna, and I have very little faith in the abrasion resistance of spectra (at least compared to 130lb jinkai).

3. I think it acts as a shock absorber. I've had very few pulled hooks compared to the average it seems, even fishing heavy drag.

outofcontrol · 04-24-2008, 08:52 AM

Thanks to all for the info. This is the first time that I have ever had to take casting into consideration while fishing offshore. Is the choice of the split ring or solid ring just a personal preference?

txseadog · 04-24-2008, 01:17 PM

I also use TLs but have scaled down to 50# TBG. I'm a big fan of having a couple wraps on mono on the spool when casting just for the comfort factor alone. I have found that I get the most distance w/ straight spectra but can only cast for a short time at full force or my accuracy suffers.

I also have good success with topshots that only have 8-9' of exposed mono. The topshot leaders also let me quickly switch to a jig if needed without the fear of missing strikes from double mono on the jig.

jig · 04-24-2008, 02:58 PM

I do straight 65# spectra to about 2ft of 60# flouro with a reverse albright (aka worm knot). I leave the knot outside the tip for casting. Zero failures to date. Outside of the casting comfort issues, you don't need a long leader for topwaters.

I tried the mid knot on 60# flouro and it just would not hold. The flouro is too hard for the spectra to bite into and grip. it did work fine on 60# mono though.

hatidua · 04-24-2008, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragman

Great question OOC!
I read of Hatidua or Fishordie -I believe- on Angler's Pro Shop forum explaining with pictures the advantages of a twisted leader for poppers.

Definitely wasn't me - I'm not a fan of fancy leaders or knots. I know how to tie them but they impress me as a solution to a nonexistent problem. I double my braided line via a spider-hitch or bimini (have not seen an advantage to one over the other) and then connect my leader of about 4' of fluorocarbon to that doubled line via a uni-to-uni.

If, and when, that setup ever fails, I'll switch to something else. Until that day, I'm sticking with simple/quick/easy

04-23-2008, 08:18 PM	#1 (permalink)
outofcontrol Junior member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 7	Leaders for Poppers I new to the popper game; so to my question is all this twisted leader stuff really nessary for throwing poppers in the Gulf. I have researched this topic on this forum and others and it seems to me the twisted leaders are overkill ( not trying to offend anyone ) for a 1000-3000 feet of water. I know good and well, I will not be able to rig one on the boat. If you are running a TL are the twists down to the real to grab with your finger for casting. Does any one fish with say 65#braid to 10 feet or so of 80# mono or fluro leader with sucess?

04-23-2008, 08:48 PM	#2 (permalink)
Uncle Russ Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,114	I am no expert, but, based on advice I have received on this board, I have had good success in testing by tying a 40 turn Bimini in solid braid and attaching 3 feet of 60 or 80 pound fluorocarbon via a standard Albright knot. I know others here use others. Russ __________________ "Tschirhart: Helluva deal. You bait the hooks--I catch the fish!--Grimm."

04-23-2008, 09:53 PM	#3 (permalink)
Ragman Moderator Join Date: May 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 924	Great question OOC! I read of Hatidua or Fishordie -I believe- on Angler's Pro Shop forum explaining with pictures the advantages of a twisted leader for poppers. You should search it out and at least try it. I lost the link or I would have built one to try. The explanations seemed it could be the best connection for casting poppers to tuna, and toothy, shallow reef fish with teeth. __________________ Tom www.oceantackle.net *Go Hard or Go Home!*

04-23-2008, 10:20 PM	#4 (permalink)
Sea Crappie Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 192	I've never used a twisted leader (they do look pretty cool though). Jinkai or Varivas 80 to 130lb leader material is all I use for YFT and have absolutely no problem. I choose these brands because the mono is supple but very strong and abrasion resistant. The softness is necessary to use a mid-knot or P-R knot to attach your spectra main line. My leaders are typically long enough to get 3 wraps around the reel spool plus enough length to have the lure 3ft or so from the tip of the rod. I've never had a serious problem with abrasion during a normal YFT fight, just accumulated wear from many fish, especially if they're tail wrapped or the leader ends up between the deck and the fish after boating them. If the leader shows abrasion, I cut off and retie. Normally before a trip I precut and bag 15ft sections of leader, which makes it easy on the boat. I normally end my leader w/ a heavy duty split ring / solid ring combo so I can switch lures w/o retying. I'm not a fan of the short leader / swivel connection, but plenty of folks are and it seems to work for them. __________________ "Vegetarians, and their Hezbollah-like splinter faction, the vegans, are a persistent irritant to any chef worth a damn. To me, life without veal stock, pork fat, sausage, organ meat, demi-glace, or even stinky cheese is a life not worth living. Vegetarians are the enemy of everything good and decent in the human spirit, and an affront to all I stand for..........." Anthony Bourdain

04-24-2008, 08:08 AM	#5 (permalink)
Uncle Russ Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,114	SeaCrappie: You don't lose any casting distance with that setup, due to the heavier mono and the knot passing through the guides? Russ __________________ "Tschirhart: Helluva deal. You bait the hooks--I catch the fish!--Grimm."

04-24-2008, 08:48 AM	#6 (permalink)
Sea Crappie Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 192	Russ, If I lose any distance I haven't noticed. Good casting form has much more of an impact on your rod's performance than leader length. Of course if you're casting super light lures, I'd scale the leader weight down a bit. The knot doesn't pose an issue as I only use the mid-knot or p-r knot, both of which lie flush w/ the leader and do not impede casting in any way. I would not use this system without these knots. They've never broken on me. After lots of home testing w/ a scale, it seems to me that you can't expect better than 75% strength w/ a spectra bimini. I like this system for many reasons, the most important being that: 1. I can cast with mono on my finger much better than w/ spectra. Plus there are only 2 connections, 1 line to leader and 1 leader to solid ring. 2. I've seen many tail wrapped tuna, and I have very little faith in the abrasion resistance of spectra (at least compared to 130lb jinkai). 3. I think it acts as a shock absorber. I've had very few pulled hooks compared to the average it seems, even fishing heavy drag. __________________ "Vegetarians, and their Hezbollah-like splinter faction, the vegans, are a persistent irritant to any chef worth a damn. To me, life without veal stock, pork fat, sausage, organ meat, demi-glace, or even stinky cheese is a life not worth living. Vegetarians are the enemy of everything good and decent in the human spirit, and an affront to all I stand for..........." Anthony Bourdain

04-24-2008, 08:52 AM	#7 (permalink)
outofcontrol Junior member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 7	Thanks to all for the info. This is the first time that I have ever had to take casting into consideration while fishing offshore. Is the choice of the split ring or solid ring just a personal preference?

04-24-2008, 01:17 PM	#8 (permalink)
txseadog Super Moderator Join Date: May 2006 Location: tx Posts: 312	I also use TLs but have scaled down to 50# TBG. I'm a big fan of having a couple wraps on mono on the spool when casting just for the comfort factor alone. I have found that I get the most distance w/ straight spectra but can only cast for a short time at full force or my accuracy suffers. I also have good success with topshots that only have 8-9' of exposed mono. The topshot leaders also let me quickly switch to a jig if needed without the fear of missing strikes from double mono on the jig.

04-24-2008, 02:58 PM	#9 (permalink)
jig Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 238	I do straight 65# spectra to about 2ft of 60# flouro with a reverse albright (aka worm knot). I leave the knot outside the tip for casting. Zero failures to date. Outside of the casting comfort issues, you don't need a long leader for topwaters. I tried the mid knot on 60# flouro and it just would not hold. The flouro is too hard for the spectra to bite into and grip. it did work fine on 60# mono though.

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